M&R how we can get a consensual agreement

[Mr Red]

One more time AMR is not Bankrupt !

 

[Buck]

Tulsa will never reach the productivity that AFW had. Doesn't matter now because we were sold out.

If it is true concerning productivity,i for one hope that we can get some help in TUL.

I know there are some places in TUL may need a new perspective.

 

[texasreb]

If it is true concerning productivity,i for one hope that we can get some help in TUL.

I know there are some places in TUL may need a new perspective.

Been there, done that. I praying for DWH or DFW.

 

[paul1]

Tulsa will never reach the productivity that AFW had. Doesn't matter now because we were sold out.

sorry Texasreb but I think afw was gone from the get go, no matter what agreement was reached I know it had to be hard for many guys, but voteing this down was the right thing to do . Thank You. There will be life after AA, its hard right now, but we will over come and adjust and adapt. (Thank you gunning highway)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just like upper mangement rolls into better gigs. we will also

 

[Frank Szabo]

Everyone has to learn not to defeat themselves with the "poor pitiful me" syndrome straight out of the gate.

In 1993, I was tx'd to another shop and I was scared to death I couldn't do anything other than what I'd done for so many years - it was quickly proven TO me BY me that attitude was total BS.

 

[olderguyAMT]

" The TWU groups that voted yes also received "me too " protection, and as a result will get the same financial benefit that any other union groups receive from a reduction of the total concession sought by the airline. ."


Per the failed LBO Letter of Mem.
about Me Too Provision,
All 7 TWU groups had to vote Yes.
Otherwise is cancelled.
Anything else about me too, is not in writing.
What, another secret agreement?

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

And six years of nothing equals nothing the NO VOTE was the only option. Bankruptcy or not. You cant get an airline off the ground if no one is on board.

Well said, you are all MUCH better off if AA never never gets off the ground and just sells its various assets and goes away. Because no job is SO MUCH BETTER than a job for less money. Guess what, management gets paid in that scenario. As long as the creditors get their money, management gets their money.

You don't get it, the creditors can get their money by selling off AA in pieces, South America alone is a ridiculous sum of money.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Well said, you are all MUCH better off if AA never never gets off the ground and just sells its various assets and goes away. Because no job is SO MUCH BETTER than a job for less money. Guess what, management gets paid in that scenario. As long as the creditors get their money, management gets their money.

You don't get it, the creditors can get their money by selling off AA in pieces, South America alone is a ridiculous sum of money.

This is right on the money and has been my biggest fear from the start.
With great divide between the company and now 3 out of 4 of it's largest work groups, AA is starting to look like chum in the water to the sharks that would gladly help Horton out with his personal retirement plan for some tasty assets, sans employees.

I'm not sure if labor deals would stop it from happening but not having any deals certainly makes it low hanging fruit.

 

[TWU informer]

This is right on the money and has been my biggest fear from the start.
With great divide between the company and now 3 out of 4 of it's largest work groups, AA is starting to look like chum in the water to the sharks that would gladly help Horton out with his personal retirement plan for some tasty assets, sans employees.

I'm not sure if labor deals would stop it from happening but not having any deals certainly makes it low hanging fruit.

FEAR!

 

[WorldTraveler]

AA just announced the addition of 2 1/2 additional daily flights between the US and Brazil, building on its Latin America franchise.

Makes sense given the need to grow revenue but it is also worth noting that the US dollar is at 2 1/2 year highs against the Brazilian Real, making it harder to command the levels of fares that were once obtained in a market that is heavily driven by Brazilian travel to the US.

Still, AA is building on its strengths and will grow its revenue where it makes the most sense to do so in the winter when US- Europe revenues will be even more stretched given the also weak Euro relative to the dollar and the weak Euro economy.

 

[amtide]

" The TWU groups that voted yes also received "me too " protection, and as a result will get the same financial benefit that any other union groups receive from a reduction of the total concession sought by the airline. ."


Per the failed LBO Letter of Mem.
about Me Too Provision,
All 7 TWU groups had to vote Yes.
Otherwise is cancelled.
Anything else about me too, is not in writing.
What, another secret agreement?

LETTER OF MEMORANDUM – 14- “Me Too”
DOS
Mr. Robert F. Gless
Deputy Director - ATD
AA System Coordinator
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO
1791 Hurstview Drive
Hurst, TX 76054
“Me, too provision”
Dear Robert,
During the negotiations that led to the signing of the Agreement between American Airlines, Inc. (“AA” or “the Company&rdquo and the Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO (“TWU&rdquo covering Maintenance and Related Agreement, the Company and the TWU agreed to the following, effective upon ratification of all seven (7) of the TWU Agreements by the TWU membership:
1) Notwithstanding

Interesting 'olderguyAMT' . I looked up and you are right. FSC don't count on the me too clause.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Informer, you can call it what you want, if you want to put blinders on, go right ahead.

The statement from the creditors lawyer is not encouraging to me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jack Butler, attorney for the unsecured creditors committee, gave this statement after AMR announced that it and the UCC have agreed to explore potential consolidatoin:

"Much has been said in AMR's chapter 11 cases and in media reports regarding consolidation matters andpotential strategic alternatives, including the role of the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors in such a process.
"The Committee believes that its consideration of all reasonable and viable strategic alternatives is a core responsibility under its statutory mandate, and indeed the Debtors have acknowledged the Committee's role in this process.
"But as the Committee earlier noted in hearings before the Bankruptcy Court, the Committee supports the Debtors' business judgment in pursuing a robust, stand-alone business plan on a path that could lead to an early emergence and against which strategic alternatives can be vetted before any reorganization plan is formulated or prosecuted.
"The important point is that both the Debtors and the Committee are in alignment that it is incumbent on them to explore strategic alternatives on a collaborative basis as part of this chapter 11 case. As evidence of this alignment, the Debtors and the Committee have entered into a binding protocol agreement to jointly explore such alternatives."​

I count 5 times where they talk about "alternatives", the word "merger" seems to be lacking in the statement. Alternatives could be anything but a merger.

 

[trenchworker]

sorry Texasreb but I think afw was gone from the get go, no matter what agreement was reached I know it had to be hard for many guys, but voteing this down was the right thing to do . Thank You. There will be life after AA, its hard right now, but we will over come and adjust and adapt. (Thank you gunning highway)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just like upper mangement rolls into better gigs. we will also

Paul, i'll say it again- do you really think that this whole 'No' vote is going to lead to a "better gig".
Tell you what, here in about 2 years, i want you to still be on this forum (but you may not, as you won't be interested in anything aviation related, as that is not where you'll be working) and we'll just reflect how this thing is going to go down and just see if you got that 'better gig'

 

[Bob Owens]

Well said, you are all MUCH better off if AA never never gets off the ground and just sells its various assets and goes away. Because no job is SO MUCH BETTER than a job for less money. Guess what, management gets paid in that scenario. As long as the creditors get their money, management gets their money.

You don't get it, the creditors can get their money by selling off AA in pieces, South America alone is a ridiculous sum of money.

If they sell the assetts then who do you think will work on them?

I started my career at Capitol, years later I realized the DC-10 that I was working on at AA was the very same plane I worked on at Capitol, the assetts move around and workers are assetts as well. There was life after Capitol, and four others in between, if AA shuts down the assetts, and workers will be put to use under a different name. When EAL went on strike AA hired as many of their mechanics as they could get, same thing happened when Pan Am shut down. Recently we saw three mergers, Delta-NWA, Ual-Cal and SWA-Air Tran, none of them laid off mechanics. Seems like a merger is just about as much about picking up manpower as well as routes.

 

[Bob Owens]

Tell you what, here in about 2 years, i want you to still be on this forum (but you may not, as you won't be interested in anything aviation related, as that is not where you'll be working)

Thats how I looked at it if it had passed. I'd be seriously looking to get out. Maybe it would take four years, (work doubles and give away days, it wouldnt affect the pension anymore) this way I could start collecting my pension at 55 and start a new job but this would be a place that had no future had it passed.

The fact is that aircraft mechanics are getting to be in short supply, most of my peers report that there is steady OT, whether its AA, UA, CO etc from what I hear the OT is flowing. AA was pulling a fast one, they dont want to cut 4500 heads, they want 10,000 heads real cheap. Yes there will be reductions but for AA they want to cut from the top, not the bottom. Why? Because those they cut at the top cost the most and if they leave they probably will not turn up at a competitor helping them make money. If they cut from the bottom all they are doing is providing young but experienced help to competitors. They are going to lower the headcount to the level they are seeking either way, 4500? No way, not right away. Who is going to do the work? Its not like MROs keep extra staff on hand should AA decide it wants to outsource, besides they are having their own problems with keeping staffed, last year AAR said they needed 200 mechanics, now its 500.

We could come out of this with very few if any on the street and still leave the company with what it needs to be "competitive", let the old guys go with a little incentive-like UAL $75K, provide a competative wage and benefit package(from a fair perspective based on the airline industry) and let attrition continue to pull the overall numbers down to the balance they seek between outsourced and in-house. This way they arent supplying competitors with labor. If they find more places to do it more cost effectively, offer another early out if system attrition isnt high enough. With the average age being 55 the last thing AA really wants to do is RIF junior people, that effectively raises the average age and costs. AA needs to start lowering the average age or they will find themselves in a bind down the road trying to replace huge numbers in a short time span. I beleive AA plans to start hiring right out of the schools within in a few years even with headcount reductions(thus the insistance on complete autonomy over the QAM). New hires bring down the average cost, lower medical, bottom of the scale in wages, less vacation and banked sick time. Get them right out of school and AA is all they know.

If AA manges to squeeze a contract through with 51% they are doomed, because on the line the majority of those who would have endorsed the agreement would be headed out the door, meaning the overwhelming majority of who was left would be extremely dissatisfied and even with the Bootlick letter management isnt likely to get much buy in on any plan to make AA "best in class" when we are compensated "worst in class". The younger workers who voted YES because they were worried about getting laid off would likely leave to other carriers or industries as the economy picks up. So AA would be left with a lot of miserable employees who would probably make AAs customers the same way.

The "NO" vote saved AA from themselves. It gives the company the opportunity to present a realistic proposal that addresses valid concerns they have while addressing our valid concerns.