M&R how we can get a consensual agreement

[787nightmare]

"AMFA made a faux pa when they went on strike instead of waiting for a lock out as NWA was paying for scabs and AMFA M&R. NWA intent was to break AMFA at "any" cost.I still wonder of there wasn't some backhanded backing from Delta and the rest of the industry to make this point. The FAA turned a blind eye to infractions that would have shut any one else down.
IMHO, AA does not have a scab school in the works and replacements will not be easy. "

I've wondered that myself. I'm not at all convinced there wasnt a colluded effort in bringing AMFA down in flames before it even had a chance in this ind.
Can't solely have a mech & rel union, now can we! Too used to dealing w unions who couldn't care less about mechs.

 

[Bob Owens]

You dont go back into section 6 negotiations, per the modified cba per the term sheet your CBA is amendable in 2018. They are all blowing smoke up your rear ends.

If you go back right into Section 6, why would AA put an amendable date of 2018?

Because that was the offer if ratified.

 

[700UW]

And its also in the March 22nd term sheet they seek to have the court impose.

 

[dfw gen]

I agree informer. The first step would be to make a supervisor position desirable that some one who is actually qualified would take it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Therein lies the crux of the debate. It's not clear cut if you're going into Section 6 on abrogation or not. I don't recall anyone ever imposing a term sheet that included an amenable date as one of the terms.

I'm of the opinion that if imposing the term sheet is ultimately approved by the court, that clause becomes binding, and you're stuck until 2018.

Well nobody has imposed terms in place do they? UAL settled within hours of when the Judge was going to rule, UAL blinked, not the mechanics, and they came back with equity and several other items the mechanics were demanding.

Abrogation is just that, the court may grant the motion for abrogation based upon what the company says they are putting in place, that its necessary but its not a new contract so there is no amendable date until they agree to one. The NWA case said the FAs could not strike until they exhaust the Sect 6 process.

 

[Bob Owens]

NWA was a special case.
NWA opened up a scab school and recruited people to train on their aircraft at pay equal to or more than AMFA M&R.
AMFA made a faux pa when they went on strike instead of waiting for a lock out as NWA was paying for scabs and AMFA M&R. NWA intent was to break AMFA at "any" cost.I still wonder of there wasn't some backhanded backing from Delta and the rest of the industry to make this point. The FAA turned a blind eye to infractions that would have shut any one else down.
IMHO, AA does not have a scab school in the works and replacements will not be easy.

The 'only' tool in the union tool box is to withhold labor.
By your consistent postings, everyone should just give up and agree to whatever the company wants.
FYI, you haven't been so correct lately... LOL
Maybe you're 'confused'... ;-)

If unions bend to 'unreasonable' company demands, then why have a union?

B) xUT

You're wasting your time with him, his hatred for AMFA is so deep he forgets he is union. One the one hand he claims to defend unions then basically says Unions are powerlesss and if we fight back the company will simply replace us all. At NWA the timing was right for the company to bust the Union, the industry was in shambles, load factors were down, capacity was still too high and there were thousands of mechanics out on the streets as pretty much every carrier except SWA laid off tons of workers.

Well none of thats the case now, capacity is tight, load factors are high, mechanics have been leaving the industry much faster than they are coming in and several companies are reporting they have mechanic vacancies they cant fill. Boeing is looking to ramp up production as well. Over the past few years we have seen three major mergers, Delta-NWA, UAL -CAL and WN-Airtran, and none of them laid off any mechanics after the mergers. I've never seen that before, airlines usually dump workers after a merger.

While many may not realize it this Summer would probably be the best time to strike. There arent enough potential scabs out there anymore, AA hasnt put in the time to get them rounded up and ready like NWA did and the system could not handle the passengers from AA. My guess is we would end up in a PEB.

 

[TWU informer]

I agree informer. The first step would be to make a supervisor position desirable that some one who is actually qualified would take it.

I hired into the Tulsa Maintenance Base in 1983 and going into management has been considered an undesireable thing to do since day one. What do you think we have if for 28 years going into mangement is undesireable?

Unfortuntely being a TWU Union Officer is not any better of an idea and that is now considered the best job on the base to get out of working.

So here we are stuck with NO UNION LEADERSHIP, and NO MANAGEMENT LEADERSHIP and we are being asked to continue to fund the same problem with more concessions with no change to the overall plan in the works.

WE have the likes of Rick Mullings as our spokesperson who has not worked a day in his career at AA. He is the perfect example of what is wrong with the TWU. At least now, his credibility is shot and he will not be followed anymore.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

I also agree with Informer.. The base is overmanned due to the unions desire for revenue and under managed due to incompetence. If we are to keep OH and make it competitive we as a workforce must be fluid..

The tool chest I inherited when I started in this industry had a tow bar welded to it as my fathers crew was likely to be assigned to an aircraft three bays down the hangar and that was what they were paid to do, and paid well for that time of the industry..
We cannot have an outbound aircraft where 3/4's of a docks manpower is idle while the next dock over is on week one.. But the company must motivate the workforce via pay, benefits, respect and an understanding that ALL will benefit..

Headcount will necessarily come down in the future and possibly way down if we cannot make it work..

 

[amtide]

I also agree with Informer.. The base is overmanned due to the unions desire for revenue and under managed due to incompetence. If we are to keep OH and make it competitive we as a workforce must be fluid..

The tool chest I inherited when I started in this industry had a tow bar welded to it as my fathers crew was likely to be assigned to an aircraft three bays down the hangar and that was what they were paid to do, and paid well for that time of the industry..
We cannot have an outbound aircraft where 3/4's of a docks manpower is idle while the next dock over is on week one.. But the company must motivate the workforce via pay, benefits, respect and an understanding that ALL will benefit..

Headcount will necessarily come down in the future and possibly way down if we cannot make it work..

TULE of the early 90's is a lot different from now. Back them in hangar one with the 727 there was high productivity from the AMT's now you go to hangar five for example and you ask yourself how they manage to finish a 757. That need to change if we want to mantain tha OH.

But who is to blame for this? Not the AMT's is managements failure.

 

[TWU informer]

TULE of the early 90's is a lot different from now. Back them in hangar one with the 727 there was high productivity from the AMT's now you go to hangar five for example and you ask yourself how they manage to finish a 757. That need to change if we want to mantain tha OH.

But who is to blame for this? Not the AMT's is managements failure.

Yes Management has failed, but when the Union keeps advocating concessions for jobs and there are more employees than work, then the new low productivity standard arrives with each union negotiations. Concessions for jobs has to be the biggest overall job killer known to man. Even more than Romney and Bain.

 

[amtide]

Yes Management has failed, but when the Union keeps advocating concessions for jobs and there are more employees than work, then the new low productivity standard arrives with each union negotiations. Concessions for jobs has to be the biggest overall job killer known to man. Even more than Romney and Bain.

Same thing happen on some of the line stations just is not as bad as in OH. The company knows that. For that reason the lay off will happen anyway. If AA want better productivity they have to pay fair wages and benefits.

 

[iluvaa]

TULE of the early 90's is a lot different from now. Back them in hangar one with the 727 there was high productivity from the AMT's now you go to hangar five for example and you ask yourself how they manage to finish a 757. That need to change if we want to mantain tha OH.

But who is to blame for this? Not the AMT's is managements failure.

really 5f did a heavy ii with a CIP mod in 20 days a record time and they also produced there last 6 planes on time or early production is not always the case

 

[FWAAA]

So while we are in BK AA picked up another BILLION in CASH. WOW and the contracts are still in order. Go figure? Are we that stupid or is the BK system that blind?

Cash grows every spring as vacationers buy their advance purchase tickets for summer travel. Later in the year, the flights have to be provided but fewer tickets are sold and AA will have to pay expenses for those flights from the stockpile of cash that was built earlier in the year - like a hibernating animal that lives off its stored fat during the winter.

Cash also grows early in bankruptcy as the debtor doesn't pay all the bills in the same timely fashion as it did before it filed Ch 11.

The increase in cash is good news, but it isn't cause for a celebration.

Not long ago, formerly bankrupt UA reported having almost $9 billion in cash.

 

[texasreb]

really 5f did a heavy ii with a CIP mod in 20 days a record time and they also produced there last 6 planes on time or early production is not always the case

Tulsa will never reach the productivity that AFW had. Doesn't matter now because we were sold out.

 

[Mr Red]

WHERE DO YOU GET TOUR INFO ON UNITED CASH ON HAND !!! The most they ever had at the end was about 2 bil .
The employee owners had been SUCKED dry by then !!