Luv Into Phl

[Phoenix]

The labor groups must allow the company to reduce its costs.

Hawk,

You know the ironic part of this argument? It never changes. Just ask the most junior pilot; he has heard it for about 17 years. Or ask the Retired pilots how much their “donationâ€￾ to lowering costs has helped (Then again, I would suggest that several guys on the MEC would be more receptive to that question.)

US Airways is like a gigantic Ice Cube. Mgt comes to town and promises to save the airline if the employees will just work with them. The more the “employees allow the company to reduce costsâ€￾ the more the Ice Cube melts. When it is all said and done, Mgt is proud to have saved all the water.

Your suggestion that employees have some how failed to do their part--over many years and most notably in the years since Wolf arrived--to make this airline successful is either born of ignorance or hostility. I think you are bordering on genius. And so is Chip.

Phoenix

 

[USA320Pilot]

Group:

I share your frustration and I have not agreed with a lot of what this management team has done.

However, digging in our heals into the sand and fighting like Charlie Bryan and the Eastern Airlines mechanics did will not solve anything, except to drive the company into oblivion.

Separately, I take exception to the comment of "(you are) so far off base and up management's rear it isn't funny."

There are issues here, real issues and for whatever the reason, here's the problem:

US Airways' CASM is 10.98 cents, AirTran's CASM is 8.11 cents, Southwest Airlines CASM is 7.51 cents, and JetBlue's CASM is 5.92 cents. US Airways' CASM is not out of line with other network airlines because of the Arlington-based company's higher RASM and yield.

However, due to the disproportionate amount of short-haul flying, poor O&D hubs, and the inherent hub-and-spoke lack of productivity, US Airways has higher exposure to LCC's where the cost differential is magnified.

I believe US Airways does have the liquidity and time to continue to restructure and meet the LCC threat head on, at Philadelphia or anywhere else, but this bitching and moaning or digging in our heals in the sand will not help.

Management teams come and go, but it's the employees who stay. It's our company and how we respond to the changing marketplace will determine US Airways' ultimate destiny. Thus, the in-fighting must stop or I believe the company will fail.

Regards,

Chip

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Hawk:

Your comments are well put and well said. Thanks for the reasoned post.

Regards,

Chip

I disagree. Can't trust these guys for a minute. They lied to EVERYBODY, stole the pilots' pension (now that they see how expensive it will be for them to give it to the PBGC, they've changed their tune), and have presented NO CLEAR VISION of the future for anybody. All I have seen is continuous threats to downsize further if the 5% paycut wasn't allowed to continue (another position they backtracked on because they were "embarassed" into eliminating it). Threats, threats, threats. No clear vision, plan or anything except that virtually all but a few jobs will be RJ or express in the "super-regional" of the east coast (a concept, by the way, that many analysts believe is not going to save UAIR from it's quick demise). You CAN'T convince me that even these inept guys didn't have some inkling that SW would do something like this, since they have been inviting PA, PHL and PIT to find another suitor airline for at least a year. What did they think, that they were the only game in town? Those were the days! I think that if these guys can't work within the framework that THEY NEGOTIATED that they should move aside, and give more competent individuals a chance (there are MANY folks within this organization that could make it successful, and I doubt if ANY would require millions of dollars in stock to do it). NO, these guys only have ONE PLAN to make a profit, STEAL IT FROM THE FOLKS THAT HAVE KEPT THE COMPANY AFLOAT THIS LONG, the employees and loyal customers. It's like the kid that would rather steal the money from his mother's purse than get a job. SW is going to clean U's clock, and if not them, it would be JBLU or Airtran. The costs for a mature, network hub and spoke carrier CAN NEVER be as low as a growing, point-to-point airline, even if labor was paid at half the rate. U needs to offer value, since price alone will not work. Cutting more will only make the problem worse. :blink: BY the way, I think that UAIR's number one problem is it's sorry excuse for a route network, another part of this operation that got killed by management. I'd bet that if we had the same number of a/c, with a route structure similar to before 9/11 and with today's costs, that UAIR would be profitable today.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Noteworthy comment..."Managment teams come and go"

With that said...expedite the GO part...and then maybe the heals won't be dug in so far?..I believe that's 90% of the excercise for tonight Chip.

The math part I can recall in my sleep by this point..and I won't dispute you on that...We need change...and to arrive at change..it needs to be sweeping change , in the previously outlined method.

A VOTE of NO CONFIDENCE is as it implies....it's the gentlemen from the Great State of Alabama's call to make on this...and I don't mean Forrest Gump either.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oh, one more thing. I don't doubt for a minute that this management team isn't using this announcement as a way to induce MORE fear in the employee groups, allowing them an opportunistic way to "modify" some of the costlier provisions of their contracts, like furlough protection and minimum numbers of aircraft, along with MX outsourcing. 😛h34r:

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Oh, one more thing. I don't doubt for a minute that this management team isn't using this announcement as a way to induce MORE fear in the employee groups, allowing them an opportunistic way to "modify" some of the costlier provisions of their contracts, like furlough protection and minimum numbers of aircraft, along with MX outsourcing. 😛h34r:

No doubt Oldie....and isn't it amazing that this is the third consecutive holiday season coming that fear and doubt rears it's ugly head again.

I for one was on the road to PIT from CLT just ten days prior to Christmas to keep working at something I truly love...I hope I'm not faced with a choice like that again this year.the results are likely to be very different in light of things at present.

I'm also weary of hearing people saying " just furlough me" so I can collect my 15 or 16 weeks of severence and move on...don't think this talk is out of actual desire...it's pure frustration talking..and it doesn't have to be like this at all.

 

[unit4clt]

Chip,

Everything rises and falls on leadership. This management cannot lead and they have a faulty business plan for the company. We must have a competent management team that will NOT alienate PAX, Workers, and the Communities Usairways serves.

 

[Phoenix]

Chip,

Everything rises and falls on leadership. This management cannot lead and they have a faulty business plan for the company. We must have a competent management team that will NOT alienate PAX, Workers, and the Communities Usairways serves.

unit4clt

YOU are the genius. My earlier assessment of who is bordering on genius was born of ignorance!

Your comments are well put and well said. Thanks for the reasoned post.

Regards,

PHOENIX

 

[Fatherknowsbest]

The reason to go thru a Chapter 11 is to get one's costs in line and get debt wiped clean. It is a stair step analogy. We were on the top step when compared to the other major airlines, when we went thru Chapter 11 but didn't either get our costs lowered enough or cut more than 20% of of the Company debt it was a sinch that we would return. We for a very brief time were off of the top step, now we are back.

Now all of the legacy carriers are doing their restructing either with Ch 11 or without. We have all had our lifesyle change, and are trying to adapt with less pay and benefits - but to what end? Southwest is on the bottem step and probably will stay for some time.

All that we have done is get a little more time before the obvious happens. Siegel got all the credit for getting the Company thru Chap 11. But he didn't even do that well enough.

We are where we are because no ethical indivdual believes that our franchise is worth saving (meaning no one wanted our open CEO job but Dave). We are a dinosaur and we have not and cannot because of current management, make the needed course correction. We (in my opinion) will not be the only dinosaur airline to not make it, but I find no comfort to know that we are not alone.

The question here is what will Bronner do? The perception has been that Dave and Dave work together because they are of the same ilk. This should be quite an insult to one of these gentlemen. Neither is a friend to the U employees.

I will not even consider any type of concession unless Dave & Dave are gone, but if the other Dave stays he will again break our hearts by bringing R Dutta off of the BOD to run the Company. Yuck!

It's all water under the bridge, I hate that so many good people have and will again get hurt.

 

[Phoenix]

Employees should definately work with Siegal.

Go immediately to him and offer that all employees that handle USAirways passengers will immediately accept all payrates and working conditions of SouthWest Airlines effective November 1. And that they will work one additional day a month for free.

Take it, stay with what you already have, or liquidate.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Father:

If Siegel leaves, there is reason to believe Rono Dutta would be the next US Airways CEO. Ask the United employees what they think about that, since they demanded Dutta's resignation before they would endorse Tilton, when they still had ESOP control of the board.

It might be time to be careful of what we ask for.

Regards,

Chip

 

[ems_av8r]

The flying public, be it your vacationing retirees or your weekly business travelers, care ONLY about fares. These idiots are the same people who will stop on their way to the airport for toothpaste at Wal-Mart, taking 1/2 hour of their time while by-passing the struggling independent drug store anchored at their town's corner for 30 years for a "rollback" savings of 13 cents... I refuse to submit even a resume to any LCC. Take a stand, go visit your local drugstore, say "hello" to Mrs. Wilson, then jump on WN to philly from SAN for $69; please tip your cabbie well, it will probably be me!

Wait! I resemble that remark (stopping @ Wal-Mart to save $0.13). I'm on my 3RD furlough as a USLessAir mechanic. But you do have to admire the way LUV works with their unions. I understand that EVERYONE (post 9/11) was willing to take approx a 20% pay cut -vs- 20% (like me) hitting the streets. And, if YOU won't apply for that LCC job, that's OK, there's an illegal alien (Syrian terrorist? Mexican fence-jumper?) who will. The problem in this country is morals & integrity... the lack thereof. Not too many folks care about their neighbor anymore - it's all about ME! That goes for the SENIOR guys/gals who daily watch their junior counterparts get pushed out the door, AND executives like Lorenzo (Eastern, Enron, etc.). If more folks turned down overtime on Sunday, and attended Sunday-school, maybe we could start to turn this greedy tide?

My2sense!
Larry
🙄

 

[Hope777]

Looks like the Company is looking for other ways to lower costs.............
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/031027/airlines_pe...pensions_2.html


Like the Pilots Pensions.........any takes Chip?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Hope777:

The article you referenced would increase the pilots PBGC award and lower the company's obligation.

According to ALPA, The PBGC and US Airways presented their cases in bankruptcy court on Monday, October 27, concerning their bankruptcy claim disagreement and the possible effects that this disagreement could have on the pension benefits PC-3 eligible pilots would receive from the PBGC. (PC-3 benefits are those benefits that would be paid to any vested pilot who was age 53 or older as of March 31, 2003, the date of plan termination.) The dispute centers around the interest rate used to value the unfunded liability the PBGC can use to increase its claim as an unsecured creditor. The PBGC has stated that approximately 73 percent of any additional funds they can acquire from US Airways will go toward increasing PC-3 funding levels. That means that the PBGC would keep the additional 27 percent of the recovered amounts. It should also be noted that any monies the PBGC has earned or will earn from investing the funds from our terminated defined benefit plan since the date of plan termination will not increase your PBGC guarantee. PC-4 eligible pilots, defined as those pilots who were under the age of 53 at the time of plan termination, will not be affected by the outcome of this decision.

While ALPA bankruptcy counsel is attending this hearing, and certainly would support any measure that would produce increased returns to our pilots, it remains ALPA’s contention that only pension reform legislation with the requirement to restore our Defined Benefit Plan will significantly address the harm done to our vested retirement benefits and that continued disputes arising from the vagaries of assumptions used to calculate plan assets and liabilities only highlight the need for common sense solutions to the pension crisis in the airline industry. The PBGC has been aggressively lobbying against HR 2719, the pension relief bill that would restore the US Airways pilots’ defined benefit plan.

Additionally, the PBGC has indicated that PC-3 funding is now estimated to be at the 98 percent funding level, compared to the 85 percent funding level that the company’s actuarial firm, Towers Perrin, estimated earlier this year. This change is mainly due to more actuate prior earning information and does not reflect any increase in the total PC-3 funding.

Hope777, I believe pension legislative relief would be a key component to help US Airways narrow the gap between LCC and US Airways' unit costs.

By agreeing to H.R. 2719, US Airways would lower its pension obligations by "smoothing" out Defined Benefit (DB) plan pension contributions, which would allow the funds market capitalization to grow as the financial markets recover.

If H.R. 2719 becomes law, US Airways would lower its pension obligations by $30 million from its current obligations of the pilot Defined Contribution Plan and other employee DB Plans.

By the way, the US Airways pilots agreed to lower their pension by 50 to 70 percent to save the company. Would you do the same?

Regards,

Chip

 

[Pacemaker]

Chip, with all due respect you and Dave seem to be asking the impossible. You want to capitalize on our alleged northeast strengths and maximize yields which requires a traditional hub-and-spoke approach yet you long for a LCC - a point-to-point - cost structure. Your way we fly our airplanes 7-8 hours a day, the LCC way they fly 12 hours per day. Your way we have 3 or 4 departures per gate per day, the LCC way they get 8 or 9.

Seniority - we're all 20 years longevity, in our 40's & 50's with associated health care, disability, childcare, and vacation costs. Southwest has 6-year captains and 2nd year F/O's. jetBlue has 2nd-year Captains and new-hire F/O's. No amount of wishing will change the demographics caused by 12 years of downsizing.

In short, you and Dave seem to want to realize all the benefits of being a legacy, hub-and-spoke carrier, but with an upstart, point to point LCC carrier cost structure. It will never happen. It [can't] happen.

Chip, this horse has run it's race. It's time to either look to other solutions than costs for US Airways' dilemma, or prepare for the merger, fragmentation, liquidation of what's left of our airline.