Looks like Virgin gets the DAL LF 2 gates
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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I haven't seen any official confirmation but it isn't surprising.
The question, as it always has been, is whether/how DL can accommodate its plans at DAL. that piece hasn't played out, esp. since UA has yet to announce its plans. Given that they are expected to announce a significant loss in just a few hours, the chances of them deciding to go to battle with VX and WN at DAL are slim. At best, they will keep their IAH flights.
while you and the AA fan club gloat about shutting DL out of the gates, VX at best is a distraction for WN and at worst real competition.
And while VX focuses on building DAL and trying to make it work, it means DFW will lose competitors. The chances that DL will add nothing from either airport is somewhere between slim and none.
And for AA, it means there is one more competitor at DAL that is out of AA's reach - undoubtedly what VX was seeking - while DL will likely become a more direct competitor one way or the other. DL's track record of successfully competing in direct competition with AA is quite strong, including on DFW-LGA where DL now has 20% market share at average fares comparable to AA's.
Finally, VX' focus on LGA, DCA, and DAL only helps DL's growth plans on the west coast where DL's growth is coming at the cost of VX. DL's share relative to VX on every one of the LAX routes that DL competes on has improved year over year.
and, it looks like neither of us win the bet which also means that WN will have to work with "only" the 16 gates it has - and still might have to accommodate other carrier aircraft in order to satisfy federal access rules.
The question, as it always has been, is whether/how DL can accommodate its plans at DAL. that piece hasn't played out, esp. since UA has yet to announce its plans. Given that they are expected to announce a significant loss in just a few hours, the chances of them deciding to go to battle with VX and WN at DAL are slim. At best, they will keep their IAH flights.
while you and the AA fan club gloat about shutting DL out of the gates, VX at best is a distraction for WN and at worst real competition.
And while VX focuses on building DAL and trying to make it work, it means DFW will lose competitors. The chances that DL will add nothing from either airport is somewhere between slim and none.
And for AA, it means there is one more competitor at DAL that is out of AA's reach - undoubtedly what VX was seeking - while DL will likely become a more direct competitor one way or the other. DL's track record of successfully competing in direct competition with AA is quite strong, including on DFW-LGA where DL now has 20% market share at average fares comparable to AA's.
Finally, VX' focus on LGA, DCA, and DAL only helps DL's growth plans on the west coast where DL's growth is coming at the cost of VX. DL's share relative to VX on every one of the LAX routes that DL competes on has improved year over year.
and, it looks like neither of us win the bet which also means that WN will have to work with "only" the 16 gates it has - and still might have to accommodate other carrier aircraft in order to satisfy federal access rules.
traderjake
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WorldTraveler said:
Are you really accusing someone else of gloating?
SharoninSAT
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City’s consultants say Southwest is best choice for Dallas Love Field gates...
By TERRY MAXON Staff Writer [email protected]
Published: 27 April 2014 11:41 PM
Updated: 28 April 2014 12:32 AM
Aviation consultants hired by the city of Dallas have concluded that Southwest Airlines would be the city’s best choice to get two available gates at Dallas Love Field.
L.E.K. Consultants said the “city’s main objective” should be to maximize the number of passengers originating or ending their trips at Love Field and Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, “as that would represent maximum utility for stakeholders.”
“Based on fleet plans and potential cannibalization at D/FW, Southwest would likely drive the most passenger traffic across both DAL [Love Field] & D/FW,” the consultants said in a report to the city.
The Dallas City Council’s Transportation and Trinity River Project Committee is scheduled to discuss the Love Field gates Monday afternoon.
American Airlines Inc. is required to divest the gates as part of a lawsuit settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice, which had sued American and US Airways Inc. in 2013 to block their planned merger.
The Justice Department has told American that it wants Virgin America to get the gates, which are among 20 gates in the new Love Field terminal nearing completion. Twelve of the gates are already in use.
The work is scheduled to be done before Oct. 13, the date that federal restrictions on Love Field flights expire. After that date, carriers can fly to any U.S. airport out of the Dallas airport, ending more than 34 years of limited service .
Southwest, which controls 16 of the new gates, is lobbying for the two American gates as well. Southwest has already named 15 cities that would get nonstop service when the federal limits expire, and promised service to 17 additional cities if it got the extra gates.
Delta Air Lines Inc. also is pushing to be able to fly out of Love Field, even though the Justice Department said March 10 that the Atlanta-based carrier was “not an appropriate divestiture candidate” for the Dallas gates.
Virgin America chairman Don Carty and chief executive David Cush on Friday said they had approval from the Justice Department and American to get the gates, and said they expected City Manager A.C. Gonzalez to approve the transfer of the gates. Virgin America started offering introductory $79 nonstop fares out of Love Field on Friday.
Carty called the lease transfer “a relatively routine matter. I don’t know that this city has ever interfered with the transfer of a lease between two private parties.”
“I think it’s pretty clear that these transfers get approved unless there’s an overwhelming reason not to approve them,” Carty said. “And we’ve seen transfers of Love Field gates to parties that are far less credible than a Virgin America.”
In briefing material to the council committee, the city staff indicated that Justice has made its wishes known.
“On April 16, 2014, the City received notice from the Department of Justice that American and Virgin America had reached an agreement and that agreement satisfies the Department of Justice,” the briefing paper stated.
L.E.K. said that the decision on the gates should be based on what’s best for the “primary stakeholders” — Dallas residents and the local business community. It said its analysis did not include American and the Justice Department.
“We have excluded ‘other stakeholder’ considerations from our analysis in order to remain objective; the DOJ’s needs do not necessarily overlap with the needs of the primary stakeholders,” the L.E.K. report said.
The consultants said Southwest likely would add the most destinations and “drive the most passenger traffic” at the two airports. While Virgin America plans 18 daily departures at Love Field, it will take its six departures away from D/FW Airport. The report also raised the question of whether Delta’s 22 flights at Love Field would cannibalize its D/FW operations.
It assumed that Delta would operate only 20 flights a day from the two gates, although Delta has scheduled 22 flights.
We'll see...
By TERRY MAXON Staff Writer [email protected]
Published: 27 April 2014 11:41 PM
Updated: 28 April 2014 12:32 AM
Aviation consultants hired by the city of Dallas have concluded that Southwest Airlines would be the city’s best choice to get two available gates at Dallas Love Field.
L.E.K. Consultants said the “city’s main objective” should be to maximize the number of passengers originating or ending their trips at Love Field and Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, “as that would represent maximum utility for stakeholders.”
“Based on fleet plans and potential cannibalization at D/FW, Southwest would likely drive the most passenger traffic across both DAL [Love Field] & D/FW,” the consultants said in a report to the city.
The Dallas City Council’s Transportation and Trinity River Project Committee is scheduled to discuss the Love Field gates Monday afternoon.
American Airlines Inc. is required to divest the gates as part of a lawsuit settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice, which had sued American and US Airways Inc. in 2013 to block their planned merger.
The Justice Department has told American that it wants Virgin America to get the gates, which are among 20 gates in the new Love Field terminal nearing completion. Twelve of the gates are already in use.
The work is scheduled to be done before Oct. 13, the date that federal restrictions on Love Field flights expire. After that date, carriers can fly to any U.S. airport out of the Dallas airport, ending more than 34 years of limited service .
Southwest, which controls 16 of the new gates, is lobbying for the two American gates as well. Southwest has already named 15 cities that would get nonstop service when the federal limits expire, and promised service to 17 additional cities if it got the extra gates.
Delta Air Lines Inc. also is pushing to be able to fly out of Love Field, even though the Justice Department said March 10 that the Atlanta-based carrier was “not an appropriate divestiture candidate” for the Dallas gates.
Virgin America chairman Don Carty and chief executive David Cush on Friday said they had approval from the Justice Department and American to get the gates, and said they expected City Manager A.C. Gonzalez to approve the transfer of the gates. Virgin America started offering introductory $79 nonstop fares out of Love Field on Friday.
Carty called the lease transfer “a relatively routine matter. I don’t know that this city has ever interfered with the transfer of a lease between two private parties.”
“I think it’s pretty clear that these transfers get approved unless there’s an overwhelming reason not to approve them,” Carty said. “And we’ve seen transfers of Love Field gates to parties that are far less credible than a Virgin America.”
In briefing material to the council committee, the city staff indicated that Justice has made its wishes known.
“On April 16, 2014, the City received notice from the Department of Justice that American and Virgin America had reached an agreement and that agreement satisfies the Department of Justice,” the briefing paper stated.
L.E.K. said that the decision on the gates should be based on what’s best for the “primary stakeholders” — Dallas residents and the local business community. It said its analysis did not include American and the Justice Department.
“We have excluded ‘other stakeholder’ considerations from our analysis in order to remain objective; the DOJ’s needs do not necessarily overlap with the needs of the primary stakeholders,” the L.E.K. report said.
The consultants said Southwest likely would add the most destinations and “drive the most passenger traffic” at the two airports. While Virgin America plans 18 daily departures at Love Field, it will take its six departures away from D/FW Airport. The report also raised the question of whether Delta’s 22 flights at Love Field would cannibalize its D/FW operations.
It assumed that Delta would operate only 20 flights a day from the two gates, although Delta has scheduled 22 flights.
We'll see...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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Sharon,
it doesn't really matter what the city consultants say. VX proposed adding the most seats which is all any city wants to see of any competitor besides WN because WN never released full proposed schedules and aircraft said what they proposed couldn't be calculated.
But it doesn't change that the domestic airline industry in the United States was deregulated almost 35 years ago. It is a amazing that two loyalists to the airline that has benefitted the most from being a different brand of airline from the formerly regulated legacy airlines can't grasp that route cases and picking who wins in the market is illegal under federal aviation laws.
swamt has repeatedly said that WN would not have to sho are the gates that it has squatted on for most of the deregulated era which is flat out wrong and also contrary to what WN executives agreed to in the 2006 agreement that gives WN the ability to add long haul flights from DAL
Not only does WN have the legal responsibility to accommodate new entrant airlines at DAL but they also will pay for running to the federal government and crying for a privileged position at DCA and LGA.
Not only is DL not going to pay AA for the right to fly from DAL, but WN will have to accommodate DL and a host of other airlines who will quickly find out that DAL is a great airport and unlike MDW or HOU in relation to the wealth centers of Texas.
Yáll have fun at all the rah rah parties WN is going to throw for you.
Where it really matters is in the marketplace and WN will find once again that it has had zero success at winning against DL in the markets that DL has wanted to retain.
Unlike WN which has repeatedly looked for a protected position in order to win, DL has embraced the free and open competition that WN says it wants but in fact under which WN hasn't really succeeded.
it doesn't really matter what the city consultants say. VX proposed adding the most seats which is all any city wants to see of any competitor besides WN because WN never released full proposed schedules and aircraft said what they proposed couldn't be calculated.
But it doesn't change that the domestic airline industry in the United States was deregulated almost 35 years ago. It is a amazing that two loyalists to the airline that has benefitted the most from being a different brand of airline from the formerly regulated legacy airlines can't grasp that route cases and picking who wins in the market is illegal under federal aviation laws.
swamt has repeatedly said that WN would not have to sho are the gates that it has squatted on for most of the deregulated era which is flat out wrong and also contrary to what WN executives agreed to in the 2006 agreement that gives WN the ability to add long haul flights from DAL
Not only does WN have the legal responsibility to accommodate new entrant airlines at DAL but they also will pay for running to the federal government and crying for a privileged position at DCA and LGA.
Not only is DL not going to pay AA for the right to fly from DAL, but WN will have to accommodate DL and a host of other airlines who will quickly find out that DAL is a great airport and unlike MDW or HOU in relation to the wealth centers of Texas.
Yáll have fun at all the rah rah parties WN is going to throw for you.
Where it really matters is in the marketplace and WN will find once again that it has had zero success at winning against DL in the markets that DL has wanted to retain.
Unlike WN which has repeatedly looked for a protected position in order to win, DL has embraced the free and open competition that WN says it wants but in fact under which WN hasn't really succeeded.
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Look, there's goes WT trying to convince Sharon. BTW; your wrong again WT, SWA has put the flights out there which will be more flights and passengers than VA. And you have already been corrected on the shared gates issue as far as what I have said and Sharon already knows this. She knows exactly how you are, you don't have to try and educate her. Just announced, COD will entertain all input that shows the best improvement for the COD on the final decision of who gets the gates.
Sharon as you well know, I seen SWA get their way in the past when up against the wall, they magically pull out as the winner many, many times in the past, I can only hope they do it once again. The news also said they should be voting on it later this afternoon, we might hear something today. Stay tuned all, this is getting rather interesting, don't you think WT???
Sharon as you well know, I seen SWA get their way in the past when up against the wall, they magically pull out as the winner many, many times in the past, I can only hope they do it once again. The news also said they should be voting on it later this afternoon, we might hear something today. Stay tuned all, this is getting rather interesting, don't you think WT???
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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WN has no schedules. DL and Virgin have both published their proposed schedules. WN wants to know who they will compete with before they publish their schedules.
You haven't corrected anything. You HAVE BEEN corrected that WN signed a lease that requires them to share gates with new entrants at DAL.
That is a fact.
Once again, you are grasping at any chance to shut DL out of the process.
The gates aren't the issue so save the effort to post whatever happens at the City Council meeting.
You haven't corrected anything. You HAVE BEEN corrected that WN signed a lease that requires them to share gates with new entrants at DAL.
That is a fact.
Once again, you are grasping at any chance to shut DL out of the process.
The gates aren't the issue so save the effort to post whatever happens at the City Council meeting.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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what confirmation, sir?
looks like the City of Dallas just said they aren't playing the little game that you thought they were going to play.
They're a lot smarter than 1. you and 2. you give them credit for.
we'll see who will be pulling their schedules.... for all the angst about DL keeping theirs in place, no one has suggested that it might be Virgin pulling theirs.
would be terrible for them to pull all of the schedules they did in order to fly the DAL service and then have it not materialize.
something about counting, chickens, and eggs.
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1st- SWA has released what they will fly, although not published, but known by, lets say us employees. DL and VA has only "published" said schedules to apply pressure on the DOJ and/or the COD to award either of them the gates, period. It's all a game.
I have not been corrected of anything WT. You have simply implied that I have. I have no idea that SWA has signed any kind of agreement that allows them to share gates with new entrants, HOWEVER, it still does does not mean that SWA would share a gate with Delta AS DELTA IS NOT A NEW ENTRANT, HELLO get a clue man, start comprehending.
I am not grasping at any chance to shut out Delta at LF. The simple fact is the DOJ has said only, I said ONLY, LCC's will be awarded said divesture gates, and you are now trying to put that off on me, nice try.
And once again, idiot, "THE GATES ARE THE ISSUE DUMB A$$" They always have been, but YOU and only YOU want to change that fact as YOU continuously get proven wrong. Just like Robbed keeps pointing out that you always change the narrative to your agenda.
And BTW the COD has in fact just pulled the exact example I just said. They are putting off the award and not giving it to VA right off the bat, as the DOJ has suggested. Now it is in fact only between VA and SWA for the 2 gates in question. I am getting more and more positive for the vote to go in SWA's favor, BUT, I will still be very pleasantly surprised if we get it. Wait and see what happens on May 7th...
I have not been corrected of anything WT. You have simply implied that I have. I have no idea that SWA has signed any kind of agreement that allows them to share gates with new entrants, HOWEVER, it still does does not mean that SWA would share a gate with Delta AS DELTA IS NOT A NEW ENTRANT, HELLO get a clue man, start comprehending.
I am not grasping at any chance to shut out Delta at LF. The simple fact is the DOJ has said only, I said ONLY, LCC's will be awarded said divesture gates, and you are now trying to put that off on me, nice try.
And once again, idiot, "THE GATES ARE THE ISSUE DUMB A$$" They always have been, but YOU and only YOU want to change that fact as YOU continuously get proven wrong. Just like Robbed keeps pointing out that you always change the narrative to your agenda.
And BTW the COD has in fact just pulled the exact example I just said. They are putting off the award and not giving it to VA right off the bat, as the DOJ has suggested. Now it is in fact only between VA and SWA for the 2 gates in question. I am getting more and more positive for the vote to go in SWA's favor, BUT, I will still be very pleasantly surprised if we get it. Wait and see what happens on May 7th...
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