Loa 91

[usair_begins_with_u]

You are wrong.. plenty of non union people earn great wages and benefits.. You dont have to be in a union to be paid fairly.. most of the people in our country are NOT in a union. You do need to be in a union to get away with demanding more than your worth.. it's a gang mentality.. thats why you call yourselves brothers and sisters, much like gang members do... Unionists hide behind seniorty, while others grow by striving to be better, and working harder than others... Unions - are an old school outdated socialistic approach that once had meaning back in the early 1900's before there were laws which protected workers.

Two words for you: *SUPPLY & DEMAND*

Any efforts to thwart supply and demand will certainly fail.. That's precisely why things like price ceilings and price floors never work. Thats why minimum wages create job shortages..

If Labor demands a wage outsite of what is profitable for an airline, it will fail. The last time I looked, UAir is not in black ink, and has only had gains in 2 of the last 16 years.. CASM.. it's too high..

If there are no concessions, I guess you can all have a bang up time high fiving eachother in the unemployment line..

Pity.

 

[Bear96]

u-b-w-u,

You may be right about the fact that unions are somewhat dated these days. In many ways unions are victims of their own success.

But you miss the BIG PICTURE, which is that people like YOU will never be able to keep their own inherent greed in check, and will continue make statements that show your true feelings and inflame the lowly proletariat enough to keep unions going for some time. Whenever a neutral observer may be about to conclude on her own that maybe unions aren't really necessary anymore, someone like you comes along and reveals just how ugly the "other side" is.

Kinda like the Trent Lott hullaballoo last year. Just when you think Republicans may finally "get it" about race relations, one of them opens their mouth. (And to keep this from getting political, which is not my intention, the flip side of that can be seen as: The Democrats may harbor some of the same feelings, but at least they know enough to keep their mouths shut!)

In other words, you would probably hasten the demise of unions by simply keeping silent.

 

[tadjr]

If you'd look at the vote from the CWA represented people, I think you'd see that at the time, they really didnt want a union either, but given the fact that management said one thing and did another, kind of made people realize that something was needed to protect what they currently had. Funny thing is (some)management didnt keep their word without a contract and they dont seem to be able to do it with one either. :unsure:

 

[FlyingHippie]

The problem with this company is the pay gap between skilled an unskilled labor. Skilled labor is taking the big cuts while unskilled labor is still overpriced given the new airline standards. Theres no question in my mind that this airline will be forced to file chapter 11 again just to get unskilled labor rates in line. Don't shoot the messenger I am just stating reality.

 

[FlyingHippie]

CNN FIGHTS UNION OVER CONVENTION

By DON KAPLAN

May 10, 2004 -- EXCLUSIVE

A union battle is brewing with the all-news cable channel over the Republican National Convention later this summer at Madison Square Garden.

The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) is so far refusing to allow CNN and Fox News Network techniciains to install the miles of electrical cables needed to broadcast the convention to millions of viewers.

Both channels are non-union operations.

The electrician's union says it won't allow non-union technicians to work at the Garden since the venue has been heavily unionized for years.

"This is a union town, these are union jobs, this is going to be a union convention," says Brian McLaughlin, president of the New York City Central Labor Council.

Further complicating matters is that CNN has been designated to manage the "pool" - a video/audio feed that provides all the nets with continuous coverage of the goings on at the convention podium.



"It's just the luck of the draw that it was CNN's turn," a network source said.

The talks are going much more smoothly for the three major networks, which have been negotiating with the union as a team, insiders say. The major broadcast networks are unionized.

"It's no more contentious than it's been in the past," a source told The Post.

But the talks with CNN have been rough, according to sources close to the talk - and they could get worse.

Late last year, the Atlanta-based news network drew the wrath of the union when it terminated a contract with a unionized subcontractor that provided technicians at CNN's New York and Washington bureaus.

CNN then hired about half the workers back, but refused to recognize the union.

In a memo last March - a copy if which was obtained by The Post - union leaders told members not to take jobs at CNN to cover either the GOP convention here or at the Democratic convention in Boston.

A CNN spokeswoman declined to comment.

For Fox News Channel, there appears to be a bit more wiggle room. Other Fox divisions - namely Fox Sports, have relationships with the unions and have worked sporting events at The Garden.

If FNC uses crews made up substantially of unionized sports technicians, it may be able to skirt the dispute.

Fox is a division of News Corp., which also owns The Post.

 

[ITRADE]

Kinda like the Trent Lott hullaballoo last year. Just when you think Republicans may finally "get it" about race relations, one of them opens their mouth. (And to keep this from getting political, which is not my intention, the flip side of that can be seen as: The Democrats may harbor some of the same feelings, but at least they know enough to keep their mouths shut!)

In other words, you would probably hasten the demise of unions by simply keeping silent.

Guess you didn't hear about Jim Moran's (D-Va) comment about the Iraq war: "If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this."

 

[Doc]

Todays modern unions stand for nothing but a crude form of illegitimate social wealfare... Unionism is an economic drain on society much like lawyers, cost with out added benefit. Being part of a union is is all about bribery and thuggery..... "If you dont pay me more, Im not going to come to work" We'll shut you down... LOL what a positive message. That's OK.. in a few decades they (unions) will lose most of their clout, thanks to the growing global economy. People scratch their heads and wonder why businesses move off shore.. LOL.. If I owned a business I would do the same thing.

Do you even know what you are talking about? Unions were created to protect employee’s from unsafe working environments, fair pay, and equality so employee’s could earn a fair living to raise families pay taxes and hold there heads up…If it weren’t for greedy stock holders and owners in this world we would not even need them but WE DO…..Because if you haven’t noticed all the CEO’s of this world walk in screw it up then leave after 2 years and are credited with 20 years of service for their retirement….get bonuses the list goes on and on……and the stock holders approve it all so go back under that rock……All I have ever asked of any management team is accountability and I have never seen it. We reward bad performance and the slug goes to next company and does it all over again.
I know it will never change…… so I say…. FIX IT FROM THE TOP….Then come talk to me until then put up or shut up……………

 

[ITRADE]

Some of you guys anti union spin on things is as bad as some of the unionistas spin you are so highly critical of.

I guess CWA was so against changes and wanted 3 agents to assist with every transaction is why the contract was changed to allow (and create loss of jobs)

Skycaps giving boarding passes
CARS to assist at kiosk
Kiosks
Gate boarding readers...

in addition to the following which is kind of hard to negotiate

home checkin
us.com
etc

From those of us who are more middle line, it gets really old from both sides sometimes..... :down:

For how many years now have American and United had gate readers?

Several.

For how many years now has Southwest has checkin kiosks?

Several.

And US was still fighting to get a single kiosk and a single reader.

There was also a time when Delta Connection was running around with 100+ RJs as was American. How many did US have?

35.

 

[Doc]

For how many years now have American and United had gate readers?

Several.

For how many years now has Southwest has checkin kiosks?

Several.

And US was still fighting to get a single kiosk and a single reader.

There was also a time when Delta Connection was running around with 100+ RJs as was American. How many did US have?

35.

I fully agree with you on the pilot situation we should have more regional jets I never under stood why they stuck their head in the ground. But remember with airline management we are always the enemy and if they can screw you they will that could be why we never got them they could never be trusted….

 

[tadjr]

And US was still fighting to get a single kiosk and a single reader.

I think this had more to do with them being cheap (ie didnt want to spend the money on them) instead of not being able to do it. We had gate readers on a trial basis for a while about 2 years ago. Where are they? They're just NOW starting to install them? I know it takes time to evaluate and choose, but the garbage one they had us using (read cheap) isnt going to do a lot for us in making things easier, faster, more productive.
Also, this is from the contract ratified in 1999 with CWA, so again, why the wait?
Article 3 Recognition and Scope.
Section I, page 7.
The company reserves the right to implement new technology or equipment at the time and manner designated by the Company. Work that falls within the scope of this agreement associated with the operation of the new equipment or technology will be assigned to employees covered by this agreement. If the introduction, modification or expansion of new technology or equipment will result in a direct reduction of force of Passenger Service employees, the Company will consult in advance with the union regarding efforts to minimize the impact of such changes on affected Passenger Service employees.

From this 1999 contract it looks to me that the company has had 5 years to start installation on new technology and they decided (for whatever reason) not to. It wasnt something that they WERENT allowed to be doing all along.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I fully agree with you on the pilot situation we should have more regional jets I never under stood why they stuck their head in the ground. But remember with airline management we are always the enemy and if they can screw you they will that could be why we never got them they could never be trusted….

Plus the fact that 35 was all they asked for. Only a minor detail to many, but a true indicator of how poorly this airline has been MANAGED. ALPA alllowed the company to HAVE EVERYTHING THEY ASKED FOR, including their pensions. Now, go away!

 

[SVQLBA]

For how many years now have American and United had gate readers?

Several.

For how many years now has Southwest has checkin kiosks?

Several.

And US was still fighting to get a single kiosk and a single reader.

There was also a time when Delta Connection was running around with 100+ RJs as was American. How many did US have?

35.

Actually, SWA only got check-in kiosks recently. Well after 9-11, I think it was late 2002. SWA didn't believe in applying technology such as check-in kiosks until very recently. So I'd guess that U actually had them (and ha dmore of them) before SW.

 

[700UW]

Unions the people who brought you the following:

A living wage
Child Labor Laws
Health Insurance
40 Hour work week
Health and Safety
Respect in the workplace
Leveling the playing field.
The weekend

Just look back at the Triangle Shirt Factory, the Pinkertons and the Chicken Plant Fire at Hamlet, NC

You anti-union people are anti-worker and anti-people, you would rather we go back to slavery and/or the fuedal system.

Yep and look at the outragous and illegal acts the Ken Lay with Enron, the Rigas with Adelphia and the Tyco trial, must be nice to use company funds to fund their own high private lifestyle. Yep great business men who treat their employees right, NOT!

 

[usair_begins_with_u]

Unions are like the theatre... not quite dead yet but its hard to find many who give a damn about either...

 

[hammerhead]

usair_begins_with_u

great statement. finally someone that doesn't believe in free lunches.