Line Premium

[Raptorman49]

Curious, a machinist license or certificate is worth the same as A&P tickets?

What was your position on the scaled pay groups?
The B Scale, SRP and OSM's etc.?

Are there any Title I AMT's that are machinists that are going to bump to the hangars?

I have a hard time believing that someone that doesn't have to go to school to get a License, doesn't sign 8130 or Log books etc. should make the same as an A&P, you do get a skill premium, what does an A&P license cost to get now 20,000+ Ouch it takes a long time to pay those student loans off but the extra pay is why people go to school for the license, without the extra pay why would anyone want to go to school to be an A&P Mechanic ?

 

[Buck]

I have a hard time believing that someone that doesn't have to go to school to get a License, doesn't sign 8130 or Log books etc. should make the same as an A&P, you do get a skill premium, what does an A&P license cost to get now 20,000+ Ouch it takes a long time to pay those student loans off but the extra pay is why people go to school for the license, without the extra pay why would anyone want to go to school to be an A&P Mechanic ?

Some of the mechanics here in TUL sign the logbook.
It is not an everyday issue.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes Bob. What that means is if an A&P gets $5.00 for two license, then High Skill should get $5.00 too.....Equal pay for equal work B)

Sounds good to me, equal pay for equal work, an A&P or machinist at AA should make just as much as an A&P at AAs competitors so we should continue to say no till AA agrees to pay us as well as the last contract in this industry, presently that's United.

 

[Bob Owens]

I agree Bob, but can the company come out of bankcruptsy wo a contract from the unions? And how do we reach that 11th hour of the 29th day with the twu international bringing us back crap to vote on?

From what I've read there is nothing stopping a company from exiting BK without contracts from their unions in place.

Keep voting No until they bring back an acceptable deal.

Not counting USAIRWAYs, because they are working under an amendable deal and are apparently waiting for us to screw the profession again, we are at least $5/hr from the next bottom carrier. This is atypical for this industry, usually the difference from the top to the bottom among the legacies is a matter of pennies, not dollars. We changed that in 2003 when we agreed to a $5/hr paycut outside of BK. now AA is looking for another bite at the apple and using the same tactic of jobs vs pay. But, we are already $5/hr from the bottom, and over $15hr from the top. In 2003 we gave up $5/hr to save jobs that were lost anyway, the ugly fact is that over 35% of the jobs that we had in 2003 were eliminated. Once again we are being told that if we give concessions we will save jobs, however once again, whether we give concessions or not thousands of jobs will be eliminated over the next few years.

What we are being told to do is give up pay and benefits so AA can maintain the advantages of in house maintenance and the TWU can maintain their dues flow. If we agree to this two things will happen, headcount will still go down, perhaps not as much, and AA will continue to hire new workers before the contract becomes amendable.

Despite the fact that we lost around 5000 jobs since 2003 we have around 500(maybe more, too lazy to check) new hires since 2003. How can that be? Simple, attrition, time stands still for no man and each year at least 500 mechanics leave AA. In other words in order to maintain headcount AA, just like every other employer needs new workers to replace those who attrit out. The concessions we give now will not change that. Sure AA can threaten to outsource it all but with manufacturers ramping up production and MROs already having problems staffing how likely is it that AA could do it?

What many here seem to forget is that abrogation is not Armegeddon. In fact during the normal section 6 process abrogation occurs at the expiration of the 30 day cooling off period. Whats different in BK is that the courts have ruled that even though the contract is gone, unlike in Section 6, the union can not legally engage in self help until they are released by the NMB. However this end run around the RLA does not prevent workers from responding in ways that the RLA was put in place to avoid. Remember that the RLA was not put in place to screw workers, the laws that applied prior to it did a good job at that, it was put in place because the workers continually disobeyed those laws and caused massive disruptions to commerce. The RLA was really more like a peace treaty between carriers and workers than legislation, it was written by the carriers and the unions and not by legislators. Clearly the terms of that peace treaty have been compromised and violated but as long as workers allow them to get away with it things will get worse. Just as rail workers didn't wait for a friendly administration for the RLA we can't either ( Calvin Coolidge was president in 1926).

 

[Raptorman49]

From what I've read there is nothing stopping a company from exiting BK without contracts from their unions in place.

Keep voting No until they bring back an acceptable deal.

Not counting USAIRWAYs, because they are working under an amendable deal and are apparently waiting for us to screw the profession again, we are at least $5/hr from the next bottom carrier. This is atypical for this industry, usually the difference from the top to the bottom among the legacies is a matter of pennies, not dollars. We changed that in 2003 when we agreed to a $5/hr paycut outside of BK. now AA is looking for another bite at the apple and using the same tactic of jobs vs pay. But, we are already $5/hr from the bottom, and over $15hr from the top. In 2003 we gave up $5/hr to save jobs that were lost anyway, the ugly fact is that over 35% of the jobs that we had in 2003 were eliminated. Once again we are being told that if we give concessions we will save jobs, however once again, whether we give concessions or not thousands of jobs will be eliminated over the next few years.

What we are being told to do is give up pay and benefits so AA can maintain the advantages of in house maintenance and the TWU can maintain their dues flow. If we agree to this two things will happen, headcount will still go down, perhaps not as much, and AA will continue to hire new workers before the contract becomes amendable.

Despite the fact that we lost around 5000 jobs since 2003 we have around 500(maybe more, too lazy to check) new hires since 2003. How can that be? Simple, attrition, time stands still for no man and each year at least 500 mechanics leave AA. In other words in order to maintain headcount AA, just like every other employer needs new workers to replace those who attrit out. The concessions we give now will not change that. Sure AA can threaten to outsource it all but with manufacturers ramping up production and MROs already having problems staffing how likely is it that AA could do it?

What many here seem to forget is that abrogation is not Armegeddon. In fact during the normal section 6 process abrogation occurs at the expiration of the 30 day cooling off period. Whats different in BK is that the courts have ruled that even though the contract is gone, unlike in Section 6, the union can not legally engage in self help until they are released by the NMB. However this end run around the RLA does not prevent workers from responding in ways that the RLA was put in place to avoid. Remember that the RLA was not put in place to screw workers, the laws that applied prior to it did a good job at that, it was put in place because the workers continually disobeyed those laws and caused massive disruptions to commerce. The RLA was really more like a peace treaty between carriers and workers than legislation, it was written by the carriers and the unions and not by legislators. Clearly the terms of that peace treaty have been compromised and violated but as long as workers allow them to get away with it things will get worse. Just as rail workers didn't wait for a friendly administration for the RLA we can't either ( Calvin Coolidge was president in 1926).

This post would have been great in the contract negotiation thread, especially being as it looks like were getting ready to see another offer that i'm hearing isn't going to be very good again, probably a good post to print out & put on the Tulsa bulletin boards.