LET THE BLAME GAME BEGIN!

[b737fo]

The west operation had a lot of excess pilots but not jobs (compared to the east operation). While the "west" brought a few captains, by east standards those were excess compared to the number of captain jobs west brought.

Some of that is because the West had staffed for A320 deliveries that ended up going East. I still do not see how a list that allows a furloughed pilot to be recalled approx. 1500 numbers up a seniority list ahead of active CA positions would be considered fair and equitable.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Some of that is because the West had staffed for A320 deliveries that ended up going East. I still do not see how a list that allows a furloughed pilot to be recalled approx. 1500 numbers up a seniority list ahead of active CA positions would be considered fair and equitable.

Once you've been here long enough, you will come to appreciate the seniority system. Placing a pilot with 18 years of seniority ahead of those with less time makes perfect sense. It's the way the seniority system works.

Placing a two year pilot senior to an 18 year pilot makes absolutely no sense. Experience counts in this biz, as it should.

 

[A320 Driver]

Some of that is because the West had staffed for A320 deliveries that ended up going East. I still do not see how a list that allows a furloughed pilot to be recalled approx. 1500 numbers up a seniority list ahead of active CA positions would be considered fair and equitable.

East has taken delivery of NO A320 aircraft for years now. West is still getting new aircraft, but they are replacement aircraft.


A320 Driver B)

 

[AWA320]

Once you've been here long enough, you will come to appreciate the seniority system. Placing a pilot with 18 years of seniority ahead of those with less time makes perfect sense. It's the way the seniority system works.

Placing a two year pilot senior to an 18 year pilot makes absolutely no sense. Experience counts in this biz, as it should.

It would if you worked for the same company but that's just it YOU DON'T!! This is not the same company you used to work for...

 

[ussnark]

Some of that is because the West had staffed for A320 deliveries that ended up going East. I still do not see how a list that allows a furloughed pilot to be recalled approx. 1500 numbers up a seniority list ahead of active CA positions would be considered fair and equitable.

I believe many of those "furloughed" pilots were considered active pilots on the original list by ALPA and the FAA. The company had a little problem with that in that they forgot they had set up MDA under the US paperwork.

 

[ussnark]

The hard line stance taken during LOA 93 negotiations cost the East pilot group 25% of vacation, minimum fleet count of 279 aircraft, and 90% of the value of stock options. This same cram down continued with the arbitration and continues today tying the hands of the MEC chairman, the Merger Committee and Merger Council. They appear so drunk with power that it's not about what's right or achievable, it's about having their way and getting the pats on the head from the idiots that support them.

I remember being at an MEC meeting and the PIT reps kept taking breaks and going into the corner with the Negotiating Committee Chairman for their private strategy sidebars. Whole damn pilot group paid a price for that nonsense. The excuse they use now is that the rest of the pilot group was running scared and wanted a deal at any price. Truth is, they could have stopped it at anytime with a rollcall. They didn't because they know they SCROOED UP, but spin is spin and that's the best they can come up with.

This pilot group elects these lunatics. Like it or not, we're stuck with them.
A320 Driver :angry:

I do not even know where to start with such lunacy.

Anything we would have voted on during the last part of August and the first part of September were bits and pieces of give and take. You never saw a coherent LOA to vote on until November.

Sure, I can pick and choose pieces of multi-part negotiations and make appearances about anything. The biggest problem was, had we okayed when the morons thought we should, there would have existed a 20 day window where Mr. Glass could go to the judge and "add concessions to" the LOA. The "delay" proved to be worth over $6 million in reduced concessions, total. Just ask ALPA.

There were other issues, when the MEC modified the pay goal of Mr. Glanzer by going from a retainer plus expenses to a "pay for deal" that, apparently for the ignorant morons that continually ignored the facts, completely changed his allegiances from the pilots at US to himself.

"My child-abusing daddy wants to vote NOW, even though it will cost him plenty"
--sign on four year old girl in CLT.

 

[LCC_#1]

It would if you worked for the same company but that's just it YOU DON'T!! This is not the same company you used to work for...

Dude...you really need some anger management classes. EVERY and I mean EVERY thread you start is negative and hateful in tone. Keep it up and you won't have to worry about your senority. You'll be 6 feet under from a stroke or heart attack

 

[AWA320]

Dude...you really need some anger management classes. EVERY and I mean EVERY thread you start is negative and hateful in tone. Keep it up and you won't have to worry about your senority. You'll be 6 feet under from a stroke or heart attack

LCC,

For the last time I am not angry!! I simply have no reason to be. I do thank you for your concern of my health and I hope that you too are in good health.

I am doing nothing more than your very own USA320pilot or EAST US by posting the garbage that comes out of C41 yet you feel justified attacking me while saying nothing to your own!

It is your own home that you need to check prior to checking mine. It is my sincere hope that we will one day work together in harmony.

I look forward to reading your future posts to these individuals about their very divisive and offensive statements.

Regards.

AWA320

 

[Mr Furlough]

It would if you worked for the same company but that's just it YOU DON'T!! This is not the same company you used to work for...

Is it the same company you used to work for? I submit that when you combine two, or more, seniority list that it is different than a job change. The difference is that seniority counts in this instance. It's perfectly alright if you don't agree. Others are going to decide this very issue anyway.

Perhaps unfortunate for you. As the ones deciding have amassed a great deal of years of service in this business. Giving them the proper perspective in how the seniority system is supposed to work.

Best,

 

[LCC_#1]

LCC,

For the last time I am not angry!! I simply have no reason to be. I do thank you for your concern of my health and I hope that you too are in good health.

I am doing nothing more than your very own USA320pilot or EAST US by posting the garbage that comes out of C41 yet you feel justified attacking me while saying nothing to your own!

It is your own home that you need to check prior to checking mine. It is my sincere hope that we will one day work together in harmony.

I look forward to reading your future posts to these individuals about their very divisive and offensive statements.

Regards.

AWA320

I am just saying your TONE comes across as angry. USA320pilot is more passive aggressive and at least is more factual in his presention (whether or not his info is correct or not). AND, USA320pilot starts many threads...some negative and some positive. You have a 100% neg rating and ALWAYS jabbing the East pilots. At 100%, credibilty goes down as the intent comes across as inflaming. I now read half of what you start as it's the same attack the east pilot song and dance and...well it just gets old.

Btw way, my home is fine. AND I do and HAVE called others out as others have me.

 

[EastUS]

LCC,

For the last time I am not angry!! I simply have no reason to be. I do thank you for your concern of my health and I hope that you too are in good health.

I am doing nothing more than your very own USA320pilot or EAST US by posting the garbage that comes out of C41 yet you feel justified attacking me while saying nothing to your own!

It is your own home that you need to check prior to checking mine. It is my sincere hope that we will one day work together in harmony.

I look forward to reading your future posts to these individuals about their very divisive and offensive statements.

Regards.

AWA320

Ummm..for the record sir...Insofar as I know:I've NEVER posted anything "that comes out of C41". Don't let that stand in the way of a good rant though...........

 

[b737fo]

Once you've been here long enough, you will come to appreciate the seniority system. Placing a pilot with 18 years of seniority ahead of those with less time makes perfect sense. It's the way the seniority system works.

Placing a two year pilot senior to an 18 year pilot makes absolutely no sense. Experience counts in this biz, as it should.

Neither does placing a person who is not currently employed by the airline ahead of someone with a job. I submit that the junior CA at AWA had the seniority that let he/she hold that position while the junior FO at AAA did not. This is not a longevity list. If it was based on experience or time in ALPA then there would be furloughed TWA or EAL pilots placed somewhere else than the bottom of our two lists when hired here.

 

[EastUS]

QUOTE(Mr Furlough @ Jun 7 2007, 07:43 AM)
Placing a two year pilot senior to an 18 year pilot makes absolutely no sense. Experience counts in this biz, as it should."

This is not a longevity list. If it was based on experience or time in ALPA then....

The legal issues aside; I'd love to see any given thousand passengers' "take" on those two perspectives.

We've an unholy mess to try and mend hereabouts. I'm personally up for any reasonable suggestions.

 

[AWA320]

I am just saying your TONE comes across as angry. USA320pilot is more passive aggressive and at least is more factual in his presention (whether or not his info is correct or not). AND, USA320pilot starts many threads...some negative and some positive. You have a 100% neg rating and ALWAYS jabbing the East pilots. At 100%, credibilty goes down as the intent comes across as inflaming. I now read half of what you start as it's the same attack the east pilot song and dance and...well it just gets old.

Btw way, my home is fine. AND I do and HAVE called others out as others have me.

Actually LCC, how does one's tone come across as angry when posting someone else's statement?? Who is in charge of this rating system you speak of?? I am not jabbing the "east pilot" as YOU say just those that they have chosen to represent them!

I can't change the fact of whether you read something I post or not and in fact It's not even proper for me to ask. What is proper is that this is a very public forum and we as both poster and reader have choices. You can chose to not read anything I post but by your own admission you chose willing to read it be it 50% or not! In other words LCC, no one is making you read anything least of all me. The east pilots have and have had these same choices on many fronts. They chose to keep those in office that have lied to them for the past several years! They chose this path and all that goes with it.

So in the end LCC, we all have to accept responsibility for our actions and not blame others for our short falls and or failures when it is so clear that choices we made with clear minds do not end like we hoped or in this case PROMISED...

 

[Mr Furlough]

Neither does placing a person who is not currently employed by the airline ahead of someone with a job. I submit that the junior CA at AWA had the seniority that let he/she hold that position while the junior FO at AAA did not. This is not a longevity list. If it was based on experience or time in ALPA then there would be furloughed TWA or EAL pilots placed somewhere else than the bottom of our two lists when hired here.

It's absolutly fair. That's the seniority system. The company can't hire someone off the street and make them a Captain ahead of those already there. That's the point, you have to wait your turn. And the line starts at the date you were hired.

Best,