Good News/bad News For Fa's

[jimntx]

BOB is not harder than a hot meal...
sorry-

Agreed. I mean...you walk the aisle with an insert of boxes asking if anyone would care to buy a snack box; you collect the money for the 3 or 4 you sell, and put the insert back in the cart. And, this is hard because...?

It usually takes me longer to do the inventory sheet than it does to actually handle and sell the boxes. (but, then I was an English major, not a math major. )

 

[airportman]

Agreed. I mean...you walk the aisle with an insert of boxes asking if anyone would care to buy a snack box; you collect the money for the 3 or 4 you sell, and put the insert back in the cart. And, this is hard because...?

It usually takes me longer to do the inventory sheet than it does to actually handle and sell the boxes. (but, then I was an English major, not a math major. )

just wait till bob evolves for aa like the other airlines multiple choices, mulible prices, single items......making change from nothing.......it gets harder than handing out a bag, or a hot tray and with min staffing u will be doing bob and bev plus all the other stuff too.......

what exactly did u get out of it?

you will be SELLING MEALS for another company without compensation. your aa pay is for the f/a stuff bob monies go to the vendor and heaven forbid if u eat or drop one just wait mark my words and in a month u will see what i mean.

 

[jimntx]

just wait till bob evolves for aa like the other airlines multiple choices, mulible prices, single items......making change from nothing.......it gets harder than handing out a bag, or a hot tray and with min staffing u will be doing bob and bev plus all the other stuff too.......

what exactly did u get out of it?

you will be SELLING MEALS for another company without compensation. your aa pay is for the f/a stuff bob monies go to the vendor and heaven forbid if u eat or drop one just wait mark my words and in a month u will see what i mean.

First off, we get a commission on every box we sell. Only 10%, but it's better than a stick in the eye.

Second, where do you get your information that the vendor gets all the money. I can assure you that if AMR were not getting a cut, we would not be selling BOB.

Third, BOB has been around for about 2 years now (IIRC. It started while I was on furlough.) When is this supposed complicated multiple choices, etc suppose to start?

And, as far as "f/a" stuff...The contract quite clearly states that the company defines the duties of the flight attendant--not the union, not the contract, and certainly not the flight attendant. If the company says that part of my job is to sell BOB, and I refuse to do it--because "it's not f/a stuff"--I can be terminated for restriction of output. I worked with the union a lot when I was based at DFW. If a f/a is terminated for restriction of output, there is almost nothing the union can do for him or her.

That is one termination area where the company has its act together. They make sure that they have documented proof of at least 3 instances where the f/a in question did not do the assigned task(s). (P.S. Sitting on the jumpseat reading People or Elle instead of doing 15 minute walkthroughs is a good example of restriction of output. Doing only one service on flights over 2.5 hours is another.) And for good measure, they will document every single little violation of FARs--such as standing in the galley talking after doing the safety demo instead of taking one's jumpseat.

I hear all the time "it's not in the contract." Well, almost nothing that we are required to do is in the contract. I just had a conversation recently with a f/a who had "never heard" that we are supposed to do a security sweep of the a/c before deplaning. I told her that it was sent out in an HI6 and then included in the manual in a revision. She informed me that she never read HI6s--that they were a waste of time. She proudly showed me that in DECS she currently had over 200 unread HI6s. Nor did she read manual revisions when she inserted them in her manual.

 

[nbmcg01]

First off, we get a commission on every box we sell. Only 10%, but it's better than a stick in the eye.

Second, where do you get your information that the vendor gets all the money. I can assure you that if AMR were not getting a cut, we would not be selling BOB.

Third, BOB has been around for about 2 years now (IIRC. It started while I was on furlough.) When is this supposed complicated multiple choices, etc suppose to start?

And, as far as "f/a" stuff...The contract quite clearly states that the company defines the duties of the flight attendant--not the union, not the contract, and certainly not the flight attendant. If the company says that part of my job is to sell BOB, and I refuse to do it--because "it's not f/a stuff"--I can be terminated for restriction of output. I worked with the union a lot when I was based at DFW. If a f/a is terminated for restriction of output, there is almost nothing the union can do for him or her.

That is one termination area where the company has its act together. They make sure that they have documented proof of at least 3 instances where the f/a in question did not do the assigned task(s). (P.S. Sitting on the jumpseat reading People or Elle instead of doing 15 minute walkthroughs is a good example of restriction of output. Doing only one service on flights over 2.5 hours is another.) And for good measure, they will document every single little violation of FARs--such as standing in the galley talking after doing the safety demo instead of taking one's jumpseat.

I hear all the time "it's not in the contract." Well, almost nothing that we are required to do is in the contract. I just had a conversation recently with a f/a who had "never heard" that we are supposed to do a security sweep of the a/c before deplaning. I told her that it was sent out in an HI6 and then included in the manual in a revision. She informed me that she never read HI6s--that they were a waste of time. She proudly showed me that in DECS she currently had over 200 unread HI6s. Nor did she read manual revisions when she inserted them in her manual.

Well shame on your Union for not defining the duties of a f/a.

 

[airportman]

First off, we get a commission on every box we sell. Only 10%, but it's better than a stick in the eye.

Second, where do you get your information that the vendor gets all the money. I can assure you that if AMR were not getting a cut, we would not be selling BOB.

Third, BOB has been around for about 2 years now (IIRC. It started while I was on furlough.) When is this supposed complicated multiple choices, etc suppose to start?

And, as far as "f/a" stuff...The contract quite clearly states that the company defines the duties of the flight attendant--not the union, not the contract, and certainly not the flight attendant. If the company says that part of my job is to sell BOB, and I refuse to do it--because "it's not f/a stuff"--I can be terminated for restriction of output. I worked with the union a lot when I was based at DFW. If a f/a is terminated for restriction of output, there is almost nothing the union can do for him or her.

That is one termination area where the company has its act together. They make sure that they have documented proof of at least 3 instances where the f/a in question did not do the assigned task(s). (P.S. Sitting on the jumpseat reading People or Elle instead of doing 15 minute walkthroughs is a good example of restriction of output. Doing only one service on flights over 2.5 hours is another.) And for good measure, they will document every single little violation of FARs--such as standing in the galley talking after doing the safety demo instead of taking one's jumpseat.

I hear all the time "it's not in the contract." Well, almost nothing that we are required to do is in the contract. I just had a conversation recently with a f/a who had "never heard" that we are supposed to do a security sweep of the a/c before deplaning. I told her that it was sent out in an HI6 and then included in the manual in a revision. She informed me that she never read HI6s--that they were a waste of time. She proudly showed me that in DECS she currently had over 200 unread HI6s. Nor did she read manual revisions when she inserted them in her manual.

MR.JIM

never said not to/refuse to sell them.......just stated that u will be performing for another company......
and do YOUR reasearch and you will find tha AA does not mAAke a profit from the sAAle of the meAAls the cost savings comes from aa not paying for them in the first place. the proceeds/profit benifit sky chefs or gate gourmet or the likes of them. the choices will start


that said open your eyes look around talk to other airlines f/a's
and you will find out that "the silver bird" is not any different, imo
they are a little late in this part of the game.....

beware of

living in isolation


MY POINT IS LOOK AT THE OTHER AIRLINES WHAT THEY GAVE BACK HOW IT HAS AFFECTED THEM AND THERE IS A CYCLE......AA IS AT THE VERY START OF IT SO BEFORE YOU JUMP FOR JOY SAYING ITS NOT THAT BAD WE "GOT" SOMETHING......REMEMBER MORE IS TO COME IN THE CYCLE

 

[IORFA]

airportman,
OK, here goes. From my recollection, AA owns the B.O.B. we sell outright. AA is responsible for all profit or losses. We gave up staffing on flights under 1.5 hours that had one too many f/a's on them. They were there only to make sure we got a beverage out. I think the service is also going to change on those flights as well, only a guess. Also Hawaii and transcons lost one f/a. I am Intl', so can only comment on Hawaii, but we did NOT need 5 f/a's in coach on a 767 to sell B.O.B. Did we like it sure, need it NO. We all saw it coming and were waiting for it to happen. Whatever you do at your airline, sounds like nothing we do at AA, but thanks for the "heads up". Yeah we lost a very limited amount of "extra" positions, we have been minimum crew on most domestic and caribbean flights for a couple years now. I doubt anyone will really notice this little hiccup. To get back real layover rest is way more important, in the long run. No more 8.1 hour layovers in London for anyone during an OSO. Yes I did one. Plus, my commission just increased for my next HNL flight.

 

[B.O.B.]

Just be prepared for LOA's and possibly more furloughs in early 2006!

Yes, we do still have some great layovers. We get downtown layovers if the time is over 14 hours, not 12 like Mikey said. We have long SAN, SFO, SEA, LAX and MIA out of LGA. The SAN is 22 hours and we stay near Horton Plaza. We have a great long downtown layover in SFO and we stay at the "Big Daddy" of them all hotels. Our long SEA is walking distance to Pikes Market and the hotel is great.

 

[jimntx]

Just be prepared for LOA's and possibly more furloughs in early 2006!

Yes, we do still have some great layovers. We get downtown layovers if the time is over 14 hours, not 12 like Mikey said. We have long SAN, SFO, SEA, LAX and MIA out of LGA. The SAN is 22 hours and we stay near Horton Plaza. We have a great long downtown layover in SFO and we stay at the "Big Daddy" of them all hotels. Our long SEA is walking distance to Pikes Market and the hotel is great.

Now there is something we can definitely agree on. Unfortunately, at STL, we don't get long SEA layovers. In addition to being walking distance from Pike Street Market, the SEA hotel is only about 2 blocks from the Nordstrom's mother ship!

There is a 32 hour layover in SEA on our bid sheet for November--it's over Thanksgiving Day. I can't get it because my reserve line gives me the day off on the arrival day even though I am good for Turkey Day.

 

[s80dude]

Is it such a good idea to talk about the location of our hotels on a public message board? :huh:

IORFA is correct. The entire food for sale program at American is inhouse. SKychefs/Gate Gourmet simply load, unload the product, for which they are compensated, but the product and the cost of the development of that product go to AA. Likewise, all monies collected are deposited with the airline, not the caterer.

 

[jimntx]

Well shame on your Union for not defining the duties of a f/a.

You know that I deeply respect your union knowledge, but I have to disagree with you on this point. In the current business environment, the last thing any airline needs is to have to go back to the union and negotiate for every single change to employee duties as conditions change. Look how long it took to settle the 737 Presidential Grievance--the event which started this thread.

For instance, if the contractual duty is to give a cup of soda and the company decides to offer a can of soda, I know f/as who would refuse "because it's not in the contract"--even though handing the customer the can and a cup of ice is less work and takes less time away from jumpseat reading. That's just ridiculous.

Having seen the wonderful world of work from both sides--labor and management, I still say that in business the Golden Rule is "He who has the gold, makes the rules." Within reason of course. I'm pleased with the grievance settlement that is going to give us the "8 hours behind the door." I can hardly wait for my first opportunity to call crew tracking and tell them that my sign-in time for tomorrow has to be adjusted. The last time I had a short layover in AUS (scheduled at 8.45) by the time I actually got to the room, got unwound and undressed, and turned the light out, I had 5.5 hours until I needed to get up.

My only concern about the settlement...
It's not clear from the documents posted on the website, but it appears that we will not have an extra on super short legs--STL-ORD, DFW-AUS, DFW-SAT. The documents just say "a staffing reduction on beverage only flights less than 1 hour, 30 minutes." The MD-80 is included in that column.

And, before anyone says I told you so, my concern is not that I have to work harder, my concern is the customer service aspect if this means that we will not be able to complete the service in the time allowed.
In the great scheme of things, there are worse things than not getting a cup of Coke on a 30 minute flight, but some customers get bent out of shape big time. I was on a DFW-AUS leg with "weather" one day. The Captain made the announcement that due to expected turbulence and the short flight time, he had instructed the flight attendants to remain seated during the flight. You would think he had just announced that sex had been outlawed judging from the collective groan that came from the passengers.

 

[nbmcg01]

You know that I deeply respect your union knowledge, but I have to disagree with you on this point. In the current business environment, the last thing any airline needs is to have to go back to the union and negotiate for every single change to employee duties as conditions change. Look how long it took to settle the 737 Presidential Grievance--the event which started this thread.

For instance, if the contractual duty is to give a cup of soda and the company decides to offer a can of soda, I know f/as who would refuse "because it's not in the contract"--even though handing the customer the can and a cup of ice is less work and takes less time away from jumpseat reading. That's just ridiculous.

Having seen the wonderful world of work from both sides--labor and management, I still say that in business the Golden Rule is "He who has the gold, makes the rules." Within reason of course. I'm pleased with the grievance settlement that is going to give us the "8 hours behind the door." I can hardly wait for my first opportunity to call crew tracking and tell them that my sign-in time for tomorrow has to be adjusted. The last time I had a short layover in AUS (scheduled at 8.45) by the time I actually got to the room, got unwound and undressed, and turned the light out, I had 5.5 hours until I needed to get up.

My only concern about the settlement...
It's not clear from the documents posted on the website, but it appears that we will not have an extra on super short legs--STL-ORD, DFW-AUS, DFW-SAT. The documents just say "a staffing reduction on beverage only flights less than 1 hour, 30 minutes." The MD-80 is included in that column.

And, before anyone says I told you so, my concern is not that I have to work harder, my concern is the customer service aspect if this means that we will not be able to complete the service in the time allowed.
In the great scheme of things, there are worse things than not getting a cup of Coke on a 30 minute flight, but some customers get bent out of shape big time. I was on a DFW-AUS leg with "weather" one day. The Captain made the announcement that due to expected turbulence and the short flight time, he had instructed the flight attendants to remain seated during the flight. You would think he had just announced that sex had been outlawed judging from the collective groan that came from the passengers.

Jim, I meant "broad spectrum". The main concern should be safety. How many doors is AA willing to leave unmanned? Staffing is the heart of most agreements. Plus the fact that FNs should have been "gone" decades ago. The workers will work, the rest will do bare minimum.

 

[jimntx]

Jim, I meant "broad spectrum". The main concern should be safety. How many doors is AA willing to leave unmanned? Staffing is the heart of most agreements. Plus the fact that FNs should have been "gone" decades ago. The workers will work, the rest will do bare minimum.

There are no "unmanned" doors under the new staffing agreements. The extra on an MD-80 or a 75 has never had door arming/disarming duty. They may have back in the "good, ole days" when minimum crew on a S80 was 4 and on a 75 was 5, but that was before my time.

Though, I agree with you "in principle" about the FNs, I still say that AMR had no choice in the matter. To get the route authorities from the involved countries, they had to provide jobs for flight attendants from those countries.

I suppose that AMR could threaten to pull service from those countries, but in today's business environment, it would not work. There are too many airlines with both the equipment and desire to fill that void overnight.
It would not result in a net increase of "U.S." flight attendants at AA.

I don't dispute that staffing is important; however, in my vast experience (of almost 4 years, all domestic) there have been very few flights where I felt that the flight was "understaffed." With a few notable exceptions, it seems to me that there is more "jumpseat time" than "aisle time" on most flights. It's one of the reasons I like to work in F/C. There is more opportunity to stay busy. My behind just can't take long stretches on our jumpseats.

 

[czerny]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did AA cancel 100 flights due to jet fuel savings? Assume it's narrowbody flights with 3 fas each (MD80/737), that's 300 less fas needed. If the attrition stays at about 100 line fas(not furloughed fas who retire) a month, then that number will be taken care of by Feb 06 at the latest. With the elimination of VMs, that's another 100 fas not needed (1 per a/c), and that number alone is the attrition rate for some months this year. Also, come Christmas, there's going to be a lot of people who may choose to stay home so there will be a crew shortage in some bases.

Hopefully, 2006 will be a better year for all of us.

In Unity



Desperately waiting and anxious to fly again for AA.

 

[FA Mikey]

It was 15 flights, only 1 was a wide body. (ORD-NGO) Now DEL is starting next month along with MVD from Miami

 

[FWAAA]

15 daily roundtrips plus the canceled MSY flights - at most, 50 one way flights a day. Eagle has also scrubbed about 25 daily one way flights. DEL starts up in a month and early next year, AA gets two new 777s and starts PVG in April. DEL and PVG will require large numbers of FAs due to very long flights (extra cabin crewmembers) and probable 26+ hour layovers.