Laura Glading

[WeAAsles]

I completely disagree with your assessment on this one O/S. You have no clue if AA had emerged standalone if they would have merged with another airline making it that they would have to reach JCBA's with the unions? And if AA had remained standalone we would have been locked in to contracts until the end of 2018 and probably longer? The industry would have remained fragmented and workers in other airlines wouldn't have seen the tremendous financial gains they're seeing right now. Maybe Parker would have had no choice to merge but how long would it have taken for that to happen? And what if it hadn't been AA that became the merger partner? Wasn't NWA asking for too much money and that's why we didn't go with them?

The biggest mistake the Unions made was exchanging the PS for direct raises so early in the game after the musical chairs came to an end. Tremendous value lost for less. But I really don't think if AA and US were still separate that you would be seeing the Profit that we are seeing today? Oh and with oil down the way it is US would have survived as well more than likely. So supposedly Jetblue didn't want to sell and US wouldn't have been forced to. 

Let's also not forget the toxic blood we had with the old AA management. Remember "Bricks in a backpack" guy? DelVale the guy who said he'd love to get rid of all of us? Arpey who I only saw once walking through the terminal in DFW? Arpey who felt the need for security since he was hated so much I guess? Maybe you knew these people personally and liked them but the employees of AA as a whole didn't care for them at all. So you really would rather we had continued with them and you think the "Cornerstone" plan was a good idea? Insulate yourself as best you can in your fortress castles and hope the Gunga horde can't make it through your walls. Nah, not good. 

So you tell me now where you think we would have been in your opinion had "anyone" agreed with that Standalone plan? And are you sure it absolutely would have played out the way you think it might have?

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and much better idea to just let Spirit and any other low cost carrier continue to come into your backyard and steal the apples from your tree. There aren't enough high paying business travelers out there to foot the bill for offering a fully gourmet premium product. Joe Fats and his Biggie size soda will always look to save a nickle even if his arse can't squeeze into that seat without a plunger.

 

[jcw]

Exactly.
And if it turns out that she somehow "betrays" the APFA membership, we'll all know about it ASAP.

It's funny - the union can in essence "betray" her - that seems OK by the ones who forced her out - so she can move on and do something else - even if she does something that the union does not support - it's too bad - she has nothing to do with the union now - she is free to do as she pleases - she no longer has any obligation to the union

 

[Overspeed]

W,
I never said AA was going to merge just that AA would have been in the driver's seat in regards to dictating the terms with US. US has always been the weaker carrier of the majors. When did AMR ever say they were interested in a merger with NWA? Arpey resisted that.
 
The 2018 CBA is bad however we still had 15% pre-tax PS which is way more than 4.3% raise we got.
 
Never said Horton and his team were good. But just look at Dougie spend over $6B on stock buy backs at $50 plus a share while it now trades in the low $40s and line his pockets with AA's equity. Dougie's a nicer Icahn. Great move. You obviously know where legacy AA management stood at the time but paid no attention to the shafting Dougie and his team gave to the US employees after he merged HP and US together. The APA, APFA, and TWU did not look before the jumped. It's obvious.
 
And the higher paid business travelers are going to DL. AA has been holding meetings discussing that premium passengers are leaving in droves. Word is the new CEO of Spirit is a merger guy. Spirit is not the strong competitor Kirby has been throwing around. Industry experts have been negative on AAL management's decisions on debt and marketing strategy has been under fire. Keep drinking the kool aid.

 

[700UW]

Actually the last survey posted in another thread the business travelers are now preferring AA over DL.
 
And Bob Fornano use to be at US and then AirTran, he isnt a merger guy per say.

 

[Overspeed]

The world’s largest airline, American, spent 2015 demonstrating that it can inflict a financial toll on its ultralow-cost rivals.

http://skift.com/2016/01/06/new-spirit-air-ceos-most-attractive-asset-is-his-merger-experience/
 
700UW,
The article says he was hired for his merger experience.

 

[commavia]

I never said AA was going to merge just that AA would have been in the driver's seat in regards to dictating the terms with US. US has always been the weaker carrier of the majors.

 
USAirways was, indeed, the weaker of the two carriers - thus precisely the reason why USAirways owners ended up with basically 1/4 of the ownership of the combined airline.  While I agree with you that after emerging from bankruptcy, AA would arguably have been negotiating a merger with USAirways from a somewhat greater position of strength and leverage, I doubt the outcome would have been much different.  In fact, as said, I suspect that the only substantial difference in the outcome would likely have been more of the pre-merger AA management remaining at the combined airline.  On the flip side, such a transaction post-bankruptcy would also almost certainly have taken longer, and in the meantime, with dramatically cheaper, 1113-based contracts to work from, AA's management would have had little motivation to improve the CBAs with any of its union groups.
 
So again - it is, and always was, about the desired outcome and the tolerance for risk.  If the, or one of the, desired outcome(s) is/was to get rid of the AA management that was allegedly so horrible, the merger was likely the fastest and most efficient way to do that.  In addition, if one of the desired outcomes was improving the compensation for the rank and file as quickly as possible, the merger was likely also the most effective path to that goal.  I won't argue that AA's unions may well have gotten a better "deal" had they decided not to go around Horton and cut a deal with Parker to grease the skids for the merger, but everything comes with risks - and risks mean time and money.  For better or worse, it is a virtual certainty that there are a lot of AA employees who are making more money, sooner, as a result of the merger.
 

When did AMR ever say they were interested in a merger with NWA? Arpey resisted that.

 
To my knowledge, AMR never officially said that it was "interested" in a merger with Northwest, but as was widely reported at the time, discussions between the two companies did, indeed, take place - in 2000.
 

And the higher paid business travelers are going to DL. AA has been holding meetings discussing that premium passengers are leaving in droves.

 
Where are these "meetings" taking place?  Facebook?

 

[WeAAsles]

W,
I never said AA was going to merge just that AA would have been in the driver's seat in regards to dictating the terms with US. US has always been the weaker carrier of the majors. When did AMR ever say they were interested in a merger with NWA? Arpey resisted that.
 
The 2018 CBA is bad however we still had 15% pre-tax PS which is way more than 4.3% raise we got.
 
Never said Horton and his team were good. But just look at Dougie spend over $6B on stock buy backs at $50 plus a share while it now trades in the low $40s and line his pockets with AA's equity. Dougie's a nicer Icahn. Great move. You obviously know where legacy AA management stood at the time but paid no attention to the shafting Dougie and his team gave to the US employees after he merged HP and US together. The APA, APFA, and TWU did not look before the jumped. It's obvious.
 
And the higher paid business travelers are going to DL. AA has been holding meetings discussing that premium passengers are leaving in droves. Word is the new CEO of Spirit is a merger guy. Spirit is not the strong competitor Kirby has been throwing around. Industry experts have been negative on AAL management's decisions on debt and marketing strategy has been under fire. Keep drinking the kool aid.

O/S I never thought I'd see the day that you would use that overused "kook aid" term. Coming from you that's disappointing.

All I know is that I invested in LCC at $18.50 per share and have to this day still been rewarded very handsomely for that decision. I also know that as a FSC with Parker at the helm, I'm staring at a soon enough future of about $65,000 per year not including my benefits or OT. (No way would I be looking at that with AA standalone) Besides that, well "maybe, maybe" I'm going to be in the IAMPF? I'm putting 20% currently into my 401k and will up that to at least cover the 5.5% match depending on what happens there?

You and I are not experts. And every single expert I read said NO WAY to the AA plan. They thought it was a horrible idea and I know you read all the same things I read on that one cause you have a good head on those shoulders.

Was the PS exchange a bad idea? In HINDSIGHT yes. But even I would have made the same decision at that moment. And the leadership that I've seen you support in the past was the one who jumped on it.

Oh and those same fellows also supported the idea of going into an association with the IAM. So now that was a bad idea as well?

Have you been drinking out of Bob's punchbowl lately?

 

[Overspeed]

700UW,
Read the whole story on why AA is the most preferred by frequent business travellers. It's because we have not shifted to a revenue based mileage program...yet. Passengers chasing low fares and getting full mileage perks love Dougie's Walmart Air. DL and UA are attracting the premium high yield passengers who want top quality service. AA is chasing high volume, low yield passengers then putting them in the same category with low volume but much higher yield passengers. Those loyal customers who pay even when the economy gets tight will be at DL and UA because we chased them away.
 
AA is now favored by more passengers that earn us low yields. Like I said...we are Walmart Air the only way to make it work long term is low cost. That means more outsourcing is inevitable. The only way Dougie was able to make it work at US was through industry low tier wages and the one of the highest levels of outsourcing in the industry. Parker knows this and that is why he is going to throw the DL+3 bone while he does the bait and switch elsewhere.
 
Thanks to the APFA, APA, and TWU leadership at the time who played right in to Parker's hands.

 

[WeAAsles]

The worlds largest airline, American, spent 2015 demonstrating that it can inflict a financial toll on its ultralow-cost rivals.http://skift.com/2016/01/06/new-spirit-air-ceos-most-attractive-asset-is-his-merger-experience/
 
700UW,
The article says he was hired for his merger experience.

So you think we should go back to running away from them anytime they decided to fly into one of our stations like the old AA did? Where did that finally get us? Oh yea, up those steps in NYC.

Parker thinks like Crandall on that one. BS get the F out of our yard.

Good for Parker. And it's not every seat they sell on the aircraft.



http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/10/30/5-things-american-airlines-group-inc-wants-you-to.aspx

 

[Overspeed]

W,
Facebook? Uh, ok. Management has been pushing us harder on the interior items because they said we are losing premium passengers to DL. One of the reasons we were told is because our cabins our falling apart. I think it was because of the crappy seats we buy in my opinion.
 
I understand the experts did not want the AA standalone plan. They investors love a merger because it drives layoffs and makes their stock price go up. If the unions had opposed the merger at AA success was low. Also, Horton wanted to run the new AA but Doug wanted to run it. He turned to the APFA, APA, and TWU and they packed Team Doug.

 

[Overspeed]

W,
Nope never said we should run from Spirit.

 

[WeAAsles]

USAirways was, indeed, the weaker of the two carriers - thus precisely the reason why USAirways owners ended up with basically 1/4 of the ownership of the combined airline.  While I agree with you that after emerging from bankruptcy, AA would arguably have been negotiating a merger with USAirways from a somewhat greater position of strength and leverage, I doubt the outcome would have been much different.  In fact, as said, I suspect that the only substantial difference in the outcome would likely have been more of the pre-merger AA management remaining at the combined airline.  On the flip side, such a transaction post-bankruptcy would also almost certainly have taken longer, and in the meantime, with dramatically cheaper, 1113-based contracts to work from, AA's management would have had little motivation to improve the CBAs with any of its union groups.
 
So again - it is, and always was, about the desired outcome and the tolerance for risk.  If the, or one of the, desired outcome(s) is/was to get rid of the AA management that was allegedly so horrible, the merger was likely the fastest and most efficient way to do that.  In addition, if one of the desired outcomes was improving the compensation for the rank and file as quickly as possible, the merger was likely also the most effective path to that goal.  I won't argue that AA's unions may well have gotten a better "deal" had they decided not to go around Horton and cut a deal with Parker to grease the skids for the merger, but everything comes with risks - and risks mean time and money.  For better or worse, it is a virtual certainty that there are a lot of AA employees who are making more money, sooner, as a result of the merger.
 

 
To my knowledge, AMR never officially said that it was "interested" in a merger with Northwest, but as was widely reported at the time, discussions between the two companies did, indeed, take place - in 2000.
 

 
Where are these "meetings" taking place?  Facebook?

Thank you Sir.

 

[WeAAsles]

W,
Facebook? Uh, ok. Management has been pushing us harder on the interior items because they said we are losing premium passengers to DL. One of the reasons we were told is because our cabins our falling apart. I think it was because of the crappy seats we buy in my opinion.
 
I understand the experts did not want the AA standalone plan. They investors love a merger because it drives layoffs and makes their stock price go up. If the unions had opposed the merger at AA success was low. Also, Horton wanted to run the new AA but Doug wanted to run it. He turned to the APFA, APA, and TWU and they packed Team Doug.

I agree with your first paragraph 100%.

As for the second paragraph. The TWU went in on it trepidatiously and with a little skepticism as I recall. The proof of that is in the fact that they never signed a "negotiation protocol agreement" that would have tied their hands like the Pilots and especially the FA's.

Would the merger still have happened if those two groups had not got under the sheets so to say? I doubt it? But read what commavia wrote. I think it's spot on.

 

[WeAAsles]

W,
Nope never said we should run from Spirit.

So then at least for right now, Parker and Kirby are doing the right thing.

Check out Spirits stock price the past year. The market knows they have trouble on their hands and why do you think they changed out the CEO?

Even if Fronteir and Spirit merge AA (and UAL and DL) have the ability (financially) to continue to make it very difficult for them.

$39.00 one way fares. Enough is enough of that garbage.