Latest Threats

[Hopeful]

The TWU is showing their desperation. In TULSA, the TWU boys are telling all members that should AMFA win the election, American will essentially move TULSA to MCI. They also reminded the mechanics that MCI is a 100% station for ex TWAers.

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

That's OK Hopeful, up north AMFA told MCIE they would have dovetailed us. I hear the AMFAmites at TUL showed up in strength to vote us out of our seniority, which story we going to stick with this week?

 

[Hopeful]

The story hasn't changed that the TWU is sh**ing in their pants. You can see the peanutbutter oozing out!

 

[Bob Owens]

That's OK Hopeful, up north AMFA told MCIE they would have dovetailed us. I hear the AMFAmites at TUL showed up in strength to vote us out of our seniority, which story we going to stick with this week?

Well what happened to the Ozark guys when TWA bought Ozark?

Didnt you guys have a successorship clause that you gave up to facilitate AA purchasing TWA?

The fact is that AMFA stood their ground and as a result they got their seniority, while the IAM folded, wasnt the IAM liable for something like $750 million that TWA owed them for the Pension?

I'll tell you I was against dovetailing. I couldnt see TWA guys bumping out EAL, Pan Am or the TWA guys that saw the writing on the wall and quit TWA to come to AA. However if you go back to that period and look at the posts that were made then, the AMFA guys in Tulsa were for Dovetailing. However it would have had little impact there. The impact on the line, in places like NY and LAX would have been tremendous. On the line both AMFA and TWU guys(both of them) were for stapleing.

Hope that clears things up for you.

 

[proAMFA]

The TWU 514 had a vote to staple the TWA personel the way that the TWU had stapled the RENO personel. The Alleghany-Mohawk language was inserted into the contract so that the TWU did not have to handle this "hot potato". There were no instructions from the membership to add this language. Mr. Burchett told the membership that the language was added for merger protection.
Mr. Stewart, the head of the AMFA movement in Tulsa at the time, gave his personel opinion on the matter. His opinion was that the TWA people should be dovetailed. I was irritated with "Dovetail Dave" over taking a stand on this divisive issue and told him we didn't need to take a stand on this matter as it was the TWU's "hot potato". Some AMFA supporters were for dovetailing and some were against. It was the TWU's decision to hand it over to an Arbitrator.
Concerning rumors that the TWU would return full seniority-why haven't they already? They could have numerous times. I believe the rumor is nothing but a cruel rumor designed to win support for the TWU in MCI.

TWU Officers, get those tools ready, your going to the floor, your going to have to earn your living now.

Instead of fighting for your positions, YOU SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT FOR US!

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

It's real easy to be "Dovetail Dave" when you know how the masses will vote, not a real big deal man. Fact is, AMFA tells the story the audience wants to hear. and it does depend on which audience.

 

[Buck]

The TWU 514 had a vote to staple the TWA personnel the way that the TWU had stapled the RENO personnel. The Allegheny-Mohawk language was inserted into the contract so that the TWU did not have to handle this "hot potato". There were no instructions from the membership to add this language. Mr. Burchett told the membership that the language was added for merger protection.
Mr. Stewart, the head of the AMFA movement in Tulsa at the time, gave his personnel opinion on the matter. His opinion was that the TWA people should be dovetailed. I was irritated with "Dovetail Dave" over taking a stand on this divisive issue and told him we didn't need to take a stand on this matter as it was the TWU's "hot potato". Some AMFA supporters were for dovetailing and some were against. It was the TWU's decision to hand it over to an Arbitrator.
Concerning rumors that the TWU would return full seniority-why haven't they already? They could have numerous times. I believe the rumor is nothing but a cruel rumor designed to win support for the TWU in MCI.

TWU Officers, get those tools ready, your going to the floor, your going to have to earn your living now.

Instead of fighting for your positions, YOU SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT FOR US!

The TWU 514 had a non-binding vote of approximately 700 members. And yes it was to staple the TWA members. When Air-Cal was purchased, those members were "dovetailed" because they were already TWU. The Reno members, received every bit of there union seniority, which was zero. The TWA members seniority, as we know was settled by Kasher in arbitration. Yes, Allegheny-Mohawk was inserted into the Scope of the contract for merger protection, however it was modified with the statement that no one would be adversely affected. The question appears that some one has been affected by this merger.


(h) Merger, Purchase, or Acquisition of Another Company: In the event of a merger, purchase, or acquisition of another company, involving that entire company or a substantial portion of that company, by the Company, the TWU and the Company will meet to discuss the merger, purchase, or acquisition. The Company will provide the TWU with information concerning the proposed merger, purchase, or acquisition at the earliest feasible time to allow for the Union to prepare for those discussions. Those discussions will include the impact of the merger, purchase, or acquisition upon the TWU represented employees.

(1) The integration of the seniority lists of the respective employee groups will be governed by the provisions of Sections 3 & 13 of Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 CAB 22 (1972), provided that no employee on the master seniority list will be adversely impacted in rates of pay, hours, or working conditions by the integration.

(2) The rates of pay, rules, and working conditions contained in the Basic Agreement, as amended, will not be open for collective bargaining in the event of a
merger nor will the TWU or the Company have any obligation to bargain upon changes thereto, except as provided in Article 47 – Duration of the Basic Agreement.

(3) The parties agree to submit to final and binding arbitration by an arbitrator approved by the National Mediation Board all disputes between the TWU and the Company which are not settled in the meetings provided above within six (6) months of the effective date of the merger. The costs of the arbitration will be shared equally by the parties and there will be only one such arbitration proceeding which will be the sole and exclusive remedy for all such disputes.

(4) It is understood that the provisions of Article 1(h)(1), (2), and (3) will not apply to the Company’s purchase of assets of another airline which does not result in the integration of employees.


Were the former TWA members, members of the TWU at the time of the merger?

I have to say that they were members of an AFL-CIO affiliated union. What exactly does this mean. Apparently not much. Dues were paid to the AFL-CIO through the IAM, yet the affiliation had no bearing to Kasher or the TWU. The parties agree to submit final binding language, yet Kasher "dispute resolutions" exist.

My position on the TWA seniority was to "dovetail". And yes I made some enemies in the AMFA organizing committee. The position of 700 members at TWU 514 was non-binding, but I believe that the membership would have voted to staple the TWA members. I believed it then and I believe it now.

Lunchbox since you seem to know so much how Dovetail Dave feels or what his position is, you must have been at the meeting on Saturday. If you were you would have repeated everything he said concerning the TWA members about seniority and retirement.

The position of "Pro-Seniority" is not one held for just this incident. The position is really about carrying your seniority through your entire career, even if you change airlines.

As long as the TWU represents the members, there are no provisions to grant the TWA members their seniority. Even with AMFA as the Representative the likelihood that this membership would consider a seniority change an issue is unlikely.

 

[j7915]

The TWU 514 had a vote to staple the TWA personnel the way that the TWU had stapled the RENO personnel. The Allegheny-Mohawk language was inserted into the contract so that the TWU did not have to handle this "hot potato". There were no instructions from the membership to add this language. Mr. Burchett told the membership that the language was added for merger protection.
Mr. Stewart, the head of the AMFA movement in Tulsa at the time, gave his personnel opinion on the matter. His opinion was that the TWA people should be dovetailed. I was irritated with "Dovetail Dave" over taking a stand on this divisive issue and told him we didn't need to take a stand on this matter as it was the TWU's "hot potato". Some AMFA supporters were for dovetailing and some were against. It was the TWU's decision to hand it over to an Arbitrator.
Concerning rumors that the TWU would return full seniority-why haven't they already? They could have numerous times. I believe the rumor is nothing but a cruel rumor designed to win support for the TWU in MCI.

TWU Officers, get those tools ready, your going to the floor, your going to have to earn your living now.

Instead of fighting for your positions, YOU SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT FOR US!

The TWU 514 had a non-binding vote of approximately 700 members. And yes it was to staple the TWA members. When Air-Cal was purchased, those members were "dovetailed" because they were already TWU. The Reno members, received every bit of there union seniority, which was zero. The TWA members seniority, as we know was settled by Kasher in arbitration. Yes, Allegheny-Mohawk was inserted into the Scope of the contract for merger protection, however it was modified with the statement that no one would be adversely affected. The question appears that some one has been affected by this merger.


(h) Merger, Purchase, or Acquisition of Another Company: In the event of a merger, purchase, or acquisition of another company, involving that entire company or a substantial portion of that company, by the Company, the TWU and the Company will meet to discuss the merger, purchase, or acquisition. The Company will provide the TWU with information concerning the proposed merger, purchase, or acquisition at the earliest feasible time to allow for the Union to prepare for those discussions. Those discussions will include the impact of the merger, purchase, or acquisition upon the TWU represented employees.

(1) The integration of the seniority lists of the respective employee groups will be governed by the provisions of Sections 3 & 13 of Allegheny-Mohawk, 59 CAB 22 (1972), provided that no employee on the master seniority list will be adversely impacted in rates of pay, hours, or working conditions by the integration.

(2) The rates of pay, rules, and working conditions contained in the Basic Agreement, as amended, will not be open for collective bargaining in the event of a
merger nor will the TWU or the Company have any obligation to bargain upon changes thereto, except as provided in Article 47 ? Duration of the Basic Agreement.

(3) The parties agree to submit to final and binding arbitration by an arbitrator approved by the National Mediation Board all disputes between the TWU and the Company which are not settled in the meetings provided above within six (6) months of the effective date of the merger. The costs of the arbitration will be shared equally by the parties and there will be only one such arbitration proceeding which will be the sole and exclusive remedy for all such disputes.

(4) It is understood that the provisions of Article 1(h)(1), (2), and (3) will not apply to the Company?s purchase of assets of another airline which does not result in the integration of employees.


Were the former TWA members, members of the TWU at the time of the merger?

I have to say that they were members of an AFL-CIO affiliated union. What exactly does this mean. Apparently not much. Dues were paid to the AFL-CIO through the IAM, yet the affiliation had no bearing to Kasher or the TWU. The parties agree to submit final binding language, yet Kasher "dispute resolutions" exist.

My position on the TWA seniority was to "dovetail". And yes I made some enemies in the AMFA organizing committee. The position of 700 members at TWU 514 was non-binding, but I believe that the membership would have voted to staple the TWA members. I believed it then and I believe it now.

Lunchbox since you seem to know so much how Dovetail Dave feels or what his position is, you must have been at the meeting on Saturday. If you were you would have repeated everything he said concerning the TWA members about seniority and retirement.

The position of "Pro-Seniority" is not one held for just this incident. The position is really about carrying your seniority through your entire career, even if you change airlines.

As long as the TWU represents the members, there are no provisions to grant the TWA members their seniority. Even with AMFA as the Representative the likelihood that this membership would consider a seniority change an issue is unlikely.

Buck, if you want to know how seniority carried through your career feals, transfer to KC. I am sure they will appreciate you moving in on them.

 

[Buck]

Buck, if you want to know how seniority carried through your career feals, transfer to KC. I am sure they will appreciate you moving in on them.

What I want to know is what you mean by "feal"?

feal

\Fe"al\, a. [OF. feal, feel, feeil, fedeil, F. fid[`e]le, L. fidelis faithful, fr. fides faith. See Faith.] Faithful; loyal. [Obs.] --Wright.

Is that the best you have for defending your theories?