July Reserve Changes

[Garfield1966]

Military time boy .. I say military time….. lol (in Foghorn Leghorns voice).

OK, so we have the time part figured out. Still does not answer my question of why I should release you and not use the M2. Apparently there is some debate (I have asked 4 people and we have 2 different answers) as to if the M2 must be moved to the date of the legality or if we can move it where ever (in your case the 3rd). My position is if you have a M2 I will always move that verses using a release. Now there have been cases where I had to move the M2 and still release for 2 days due to 30/7 but that is rare. It’s still better than 3 releases though because we (the company) gets to keep one day of reserve by moving the M2 verses loosing a day by releasing and leaving the M2 where it is. Keep in mind that if the M2 is not moved by 12n the day prior, it can never be moved.

I am not sure what you mean by the 5th day of a block of 5? Draw me a picture.

 

[jimntx]

Military time boy .. I say military time….. lol (in Foghorn Leghorns voice).

OK, so we have the time part figured out. Still does not answer my question of why I should release you and not use the M2. Apparently there is some debate (I have asked 4 people and we have 2 different answers) as to if the M2 must be moved to the date of the legality or if we can move it where ever (in your case the 3rd). My position is if you have a M2 I will always move that verses using a release. Now there have been cases where I had to move the M2 and still release for 2 days due to 30/7 but that is rare. It’s still better than 3 releases though because we (the company) gets to keep one day of reserve by moving the M2 verses loosing a day by releasing and leaving the M2 where it is. Keep in mind that if the M2 is not moved by 12n the day prior, it can never be moved.

I am not sure what you mean by the 5th day of a block of 5? Draw me a picture.

My point is that I fail to see why you make the big deal about eliminating the 7-day legality when it does not increase coverage by one single hour. Whether I am off on the 4th due to a 7-day legality or off on the 4th due to my moveable day off being moved to that day, the result is the same. I am off on that day and unavailable to the company. If the company had released me on the 3rd, they would have only been "deprived of my services' for one-half day. I had the first half of the day off on legal rest. If you had released me for the 2nd half of that day, I would be available to you on both the 4th and the 5th. The way you do it, you only get my services on the 5th. Well, you get the afternoon of the 3rd, but since I already have time this month, my relative position will probably be high.

5th day of a block of 5. If I am good for 4 straight reserve days and the next day is my moveable day off, and you then move that moveable day to another day, then that day becomes the 5th day of a block of 5 reserve days.

 

[Skymess]

My point is that I fail to see why you make the big deal about eliminating the 7-day legality when it does not increase coverage by one single hour. Whether I am off on the 4th due to a 7-day legality or off on the 4th due to my moveable day off being moved to that day, the result is the same. I am off on that day and unavailable to the company. If the company had released me on the 3rd, they would have only been "deprived of my services' for one-half day. I had the first half of the day off on legal rest. If you had released me for the 2nd half of that day, I would be available to you on both the 4th and the 5th. The way you do it, you only get my services on the 5th. Well, you get the afternoon of the 3rd, but since I already have time this month, my relative position will probably be high.

5th day of a block of 5. If I am good for 4 straight reserve days and the next day is my moveable day off, and you then move that moveable day to another day, then that day becomes the 5th day of a block of 5 reserve days.

I feel like I am back in 7th grade math class. And I still don't get it. :blink: I'm having nightmarish flashbacks of the introduction of pi.

 

[jimntx]

I am not sure what you mean by the 5th day of a block of 5? Draw me a picture.

R=Reserve Day
X=Scheduled day off
M=Moveable Day off

XXXRRRRMXX = 3 days off, 4 days on, 3 days off

If you move the moveable day and make that day a reserve day then the picture is

XXXRRRRRXX = 3 days off, 5 days on, 2 days off. The last R is the 5th reserve day of a block of 5 reserve days.

 

[operaations]

Jim

I would love to look at your actual line from last month to this month and try to fully understand what you are saying. It is too difficult to try and give an accurate explination of crew schedulings decision making based on just words.

I think I have the jist of it but I may have it all wrong.

Ok you term are on reserve the 2,3,4,5 of July but you have a carry over seq that flys until 2342 on the 2 of July. You are now on duty 5 days in a row so your 7th day will be on the 4th of July. and you have an m2 on the 6th of July. Getting back at 2342 on the 2 does not make you legal to depart until 1157 on the 3rd or a sign in of 1057.

Your Idea to release you at 12noon for half day would eliminate the 7d because you techinically arent legal to fly until noon anyway. (that would be great if we were allowed to do that.) But the big fat orange cat is right. On reserve a midnight to midnight release is the only thing that eliminates a 7d.
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So Crew Sched decides to move your M2 to the 3rd of July to make you legal to fly on the 4,5,6.

I think this is what happened if not It is good example of how we make our decisions, and we only make our decisions based on what the company and the union decide to agree on. (not always good usually bad)

I am sure if the Actual flight attendants that are working a line and not sitting in a union office were to get together with actual schedulers and not management negotiators who do not have a clue to the every day operation got together we could pound out a good working contract and just let the management worry about the monitary parts of the contract.

Just my 2 cents. but i am broke so i will take one cent back. ha ha ha

 

[jimntx]

Jim
Ok you term are on reserve the 2,3,4,5 of July but you have a carry over seq that flys until 2342 on the 2 of July. You are now on duty 5 days in a row so your 7th day will be on the 4th of July. and you have an m2 on the 6th of July. Getting back at 2342 on the 2 does not make you legal to depart until 1157 on the 3rd or a sign in of 1057.

Typical Scheduler thinking! I am not legal for a 1057 sign-in. Article 10, Section F, paragraph 11 of what's left of the CBA states that I am not required to advise you of my whereabouts during my legal rest which does not end until 1157 on the 3rd. And, I can assure you that when a duty period ends at 2357, I call you and tell you, or send a HISEND, that I want 12 hours uninterrupted. At best, you could give me a short call out for a 1257 departure, but then you would have to waive my sign-in.

Your Idea to release you at 12noon for half day would eliminate the 7d because you techinically arent legal to fly until noon anyway. (that would be great if we were allowed to do that.) But the big fat orange cat is right. On reserve a midnight to midnight release is the only thing that eliminates a 7d.

As my Belgian counterpart when I was at Texaco used to say, "I didn't knew that." I thought that 24 hours duty-free was 24 hours duty-free, regardless.

So Crew Sched decides to move your M2 to the 3rd of July to make you legal to fly on the 4,5,6.
Just my 2 cents. but i am broke so i will take one cent back. ha ha ha

Take the other penny back, you earned it, almost. You have come closer to understanding the mechanics, but still no cigar. My M2 was on 19JUL, not 06JUL. And, the scheduler moved the M2 to 04JUL, not 03JUL. 03JUL would have made sense. So, I am good after 1200 on the 3rd, and all day on the 5th. The 6th was a day off anyway.

That was my whole original point. If I'm not going to be good anyway on 04JUL, why move the M2 to the 4th? I realize that I am now good for the 19JUL, but it will be the 5th day straight as I was already good for 15-18JUL. That's getting into the time of the month that you are going to have to start releasing me some days (based on recent reserve experience of friends at SLT) so that I will still be good for the almighty last day of the month.

It's called resource management. It is not being practiced if you give an employee a day off that they were going to get anyway.

 

[operaations]

Jim

Take a minute and read exactly what I said.....I would need to take a look at your actual line from June to July to make an accurate statement.

So your little remark anbout Typical Scheduler is immature at best. I have read many of your posts in the past and have taken you as an intelligent well thought out person. Your little attempt to take a shot at me is sad.

here is where I got 1047 si 1157 dept. Block in at 2342 + 15 min debrief 2357 off Duty. Now add in your 12 hours rest and it comes up with 1157 for a departure. Unless you were a reserve last omnth then you would hold reserve legalities and get the additional hour.

You are exactly correct you do nnot have to answer the phone and I would not expect anyone to answer there phopne during their rest break (which is why i dont even bother to call during the rest break)

I just read who your fomer employer is TEXACO so that explains alot of how you post.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Jim

Take a minute and read exactly what I said.....I would need to take a look at your actual line from June to July to make an accurate statement.

operaations,

Give up on talking to jim. All he does is b**ch and complain about everything. Makes you think why he has had several careers??? I think it is time for jim to retire again and find his 8th career!

 

[jimntx]

Jim

Take a minute and read exactly what I said.....I would need to take a look at your actual line from June to July to make an accurate statement.

So your little remark anbout Typical Scheduler is immature at best. I have read many of your posts in the past and have taken you as an intelligent well thought out person. Your little attempt to take a shot at me is sad.

here is where I got 1047 si 1157 dept. Block in at 2342 + 15 min debrief 2357 off Duty. Now add in your 12 hours rest and it comes up with 1157 for a departure. Unless you were a reserve last omnth then you would hold reserve legalities and get the additional hour.

You are exactly correct you do nnot have to answer the phone and I would not expect anyone to answer there phopne during their rest break (which is why i dont even bother to call during the rest break)

I just read who your fomer employer is TEXACO so that explains alot of how you post.

Take a look at the smiley face. It was a joke for chrissakes. And, how would you expect someone to sign in at 1057 and be ready for departure at 1157 when they don't even have to answer the phone until 1158?

 

[operaations]

where did I say I expected you to be ready for a 1157 departure. Read the contract you so dutifully quote. you are technically legal to depart at 1157 the minute your rest break ends. but if you do not have to answer the phone till that time then you will have 2 hours to make dept..

CCarreer number 8 is calling

 

[Skymess]

Take a look at the smiley face. It was a joke for chrissakes. And, how would you expect someone to sign in at 1057 and be ready for departure at 1157 when they don't even have to answer the phone until 1158?

Those are the rules. You don't have to answer the phone during your rest but they can have you on a flight the minute your rest is up. So, it behooves us to get to a computer sometime before the rest is over to check if we got anything or we can just get a missed trip or late sign in.

 

[operaations]

if you are assigned a trip 1 minute after your rest brerak is up you are very much legal for it.. but you can not get a miss trip or a valid late report because it is less than 2 hours till dept. so It also behooves crew sched to not sched someone till 2 hours after legal rest is up.

Take a look at the on duty contract guide and use it to your advantage. It is a great tool.
Page 29 Reserve

Do I have to call the Tape
Duty Ends before the call in window:
Two Options

1 Call the Tape
2 Call Crew Sched during your debrief to inform them that you will not call the tape and you will make contact immediatley after your rerst break ends. When making this contact you must be Avbl for sign in at the airport no earlier than one Hour later.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duty Ends During the calll in window

Yes you must call the Tape

---------------------------------------------

Duty Ends After the Call In Window

no There is no Obligation to call the tape or make contact with Crew Sched. You must be avbl for assignment after the completion of your Legal Rest.


I hope this Helps

 

[s80dude]

Wow this is getting confusing and tense...... so ops and Gar, how is the manning going this holiday weekend?

 

[Skymess]

if you are assigned a trip 1 minute after your rest brerak is up you are very much legal for it.. but you can not get a miss trip or a valid late report because it is less than 2 hours till dept. so It also behooves crew sched to not sched someone till 2 hours after legal rest is up.

Take a look at the on duty contract guide and use it to your advantage. It is a great tool.
Page 29 Reserve

Do I have to call the Tape
Duty Ends before the call in window:
Two Options

1 Call the Tape
2 Call Crew Sched during your debrief to inform them that you will not call the tape and you will make contact immediatley after your rerst break ends. When making this contact you must be Avbl for sign in at the airport no earlier than one Hour later.

I was aware of this. If you are not, however, you can be in a bad position once you come off of the break. I am not within an hour of the airport, unless it is between 1 and 4am, so I would be hosed if I ended my rest period and only had an hour to get there. Which is why I look up my schedule sometime during my rest period.

Whether it is one hour or two after your rest ends IS having an assignment the minute after your break ends.

 

[Nor'Easta]

CCarreer number 8 is calling

The clock is ticking!

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All of you reserves on this board need to read Article 10 (Reserve) of the CBA. Also, read the On-Duty Contract Guide. If you don't have one; download load it here On-Duty Contract Guide.