Jim you make me laugh, did you need a big stick? Any way, I am pretty sure that our own agents have the entry level job, part time (at least where I commute from), and full benefit job you are looking for. After talking to some of them, they also get to keep there bennies w/o working at all. Basically the same as we used to be able to do. Please correct me of my info was misrepresented to me. P.S. I live in a small AA station. No full time agents here. Everyone bids 20 hour a week schedules here.
F/A Cross-utilization / DOM to INTL / Prevents Recalls
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jimntx
Veteran
Glad you got a laugh out of it. Here at SLT, the station manager put an old luggage scale out in ops with a sign above it asking f/as to weigh their luggage. Seems that there have been several IODs that were really the result of people taking everything they own on trips. She was trying to encourage people to go through their bags and take out stuff that we all carry "in case we need it", but never use. (Like my exercise clothes. 
)
Some of our heftier gals immediately started a rumor that it was just an attempt by the station manager to bring back f/a weigh-ins in violation of the contract, yada, yada, yada.
(No, none of them bothered to read the sign. They just saw the scale and went ballistic. I would have been really insulted if that were the case considering that it was a luggage scale that went up to something like 400 lbs!)
Let's see how many benefits the agents get when your station is outsourced to outside contractors--which is what the company is doing with all smaller stations with only a few flights per day. I know at BHM which has just been upgraded to 4 flights per day--spin that as a 33% increase in service --the agents get nothing, not even reduced ticket prices because they are not AMR employees.
And, I notice that none of you have addressed the issue of people receiving benefits for nothing; so, I'm assuming that you approve of people being financial leeches. There are two different terms for getting benefits from an organization without contributing to the financial well-being of that organization--one is welfare, the other is retirement. There is all that f/a outrage over on the DFW-PEK thread about the APA's land grab for unearned benefits, but when f/as do the same, that's somehow different.
Working for the company for 30 or 40 years does not earn me the right to hang on the seniority list and do nothing to increase the company's financial health and future. Working for the company for 30 or 40 years earns me the right to work a 31st or 41st year--as long as I am working.
)Some of our heftier gals immediately started a rumor that it was just an attempt by the station manager to bring back f/a weigh-ins in violation of the contract, yada, yada, yada.
(No, none of them bothered to read the sign. They just saw the scale and went ballistic. I would have been really insulted if that were the case considering that it was a luggage scale that went up to something like 400 lbs!) Let's see how many benefits the agents get when your station is outsourced to outside contractors--which is what the company is doing with all smaller stations with only a few flights per day. I know at BHM which has just been upgraded to 4 flights per day--spin that as a 33% increase in service
--the agents get nothing, not even reduced ticket prices because they are not AMR employees.And, I notice that none of you have addressed the issue of people receiving benefits for nothing; so, I'm assuming that you approve of people being financial leeches. There are two different terms for getting benefits from an organization without contributing to the financial well-being of that organization--one is welfare, the other is retirement. There is all that f/a outrage over on the DFW-PEK thread about the APA's land grab for unearned benefits, but when f/as do the same, that's somehow different.
Working for the company for 30 or 40 years does not earn me the right to hang on the seniority list and do nothing to increase the company's financial health and future. Working for the company for 30 or 40 years earns me the right to work a 31st or 41st year--as long as I am working.
Jim,
What benefits are being received for nothing?
jimntx
Veteran
Non-rev travel. Company benefits paid in full for only part-time work (35hours/month). This requires two f/as to cover one line. Also causes reserve to go more senior than necessary.
And, don't tell me that there aren't senior f/as who feel entitled to stay on the seniority list just to maintain their travel benefits, but don't feel as if they owe the company or their fellow f/as a thing.
A classmate of mine attended JW's town hall meeting at DFW in June, 2003 two weeks before we were furloughed. (You know, the one where he explained that he had no responsibility for the RPA. It was all the APFA Board's fault.
)There was a contingent of 20 or so senior f/as there. The Texas-big-hair, very blond, expensive clothes type. Now, remember this was the middle of June, 2003. The RPA had been in effect since April. When it came time for questions, the group's spokewoman stood up and said, "I just learned last week (emphasis mine) that I am going to have to start flying again in order to maintain my benefits. I have 38 years with this company. I EARNED the right to my benefits without having to fly. I don't care how many junior flight attendants you have to furlough, you get this changed!" She sat down to thunderous applause from her group.
After the meeting, my classmate, Anna, went up to her and said, "Honey, drawing pay and benefits without working is called retirement." She said, "How dare you!" Anna said, "Dearie, I'm being furloughed in 2 weeks because of people like you. You bet your sweet *ss, I dare."
I love the argument that "they can't afford to retire." A lot of them are drawing zero paychecks. What's not to afford? Besides, no pension plan, no Social Security was ever intended to be your sole source of income in retirement. If someone has reached retirement age and hasn't saved a dime for their retirement, why is this AA or the more junior flight attendants' fault?
Actions have consequences. If you feel the need as those women did to spend $75/week or more in the beauty salon, or you are living from paycheck to paycheck because you choose to live in a house and drive a car that you can't really afford (as one DFW f/a I know does), then you have to expect a penurious retirement.
Jim,
Your argument is wrong.
Yes two flight attendants cover the trip, but the second one is doing it for the extra hours. So there is not an additional expense to the company. In fact the company usually saves money as the f/a's picking up are usually on a lower pay scale.
If the first one is flying 35 hours, she covers her benefits, if she falls below the average, she has to pay. Again no expense to the company.
If a senior f/a is dropping trips she is lowering her yearly average for retirement pay purposes. A benefit to the company, an expense for the f/a.
If she retires, the company must pay her medical benefits, retirement, and travel privilages. So by not retiring, she is actually saviung the company money. Albeit the retirement pay is low, especially if the f/a has dropped her trips for the past 10 years.
It seems to me the company comes out on top in every scenario here. Your argument is a flawed one, and it also seems to me you are envious and bitter that they became stewardesses before you became a flight attendant.
Your argument is wrong.
Yes two flight attendants cover the trip, but the second one is doing it for the extra hours. So there is not an additional expense to the company. In fact the company usually saves money as the f/a's picking up are usually on a lower pay scale.
If the first one is flying 35 hours, she covers her benefits, if she falls below the average, she has to pay. Again no expense to the company.
If a senior f/a is dropping trips she is lowering her yearly average for retirement pay purposes. A benefit to the company, an expense for the f/a.
If she retires, the company must pay her medical benefits, retirement, and travel privilages. So by not retiring, she is actually saviung the company money. Albeit the retirement pay is low, especially if the f/a has dropped her trips for the past 10 years.
It seems to me the company comes out on top in every scenario here. Your argument is a flawed one, and it also seems to me you are envious and bitter that they became stewardesses before you became a flight attendant.
jimntx
Veteran
Once again, I love it when f/as at AA declare me bitter or angry when I try to use logic as an argument that AA flight attendants are not the saviors of the Western world. Flight attendant is NOT a hard job. A tiring job, yes, but not a hard one, and I see more energy expended trying to avoid doing the job than it would take to just go ahead and do the job the way the company wants. But, you'll never convince an AA flight attendant of that fact. The average AA f/a already has his/her mind made up and does not like to be confused with facts.
Neither bitter nor angry, just realistic.
And, talk about twisted, fallacious arguments. You went way around to try and justify the fact that it takes two f/as to do one job. And, that argument about someone picking up the trip is true only to an extent. Over 60% of the "active" f/a corps is already at top of scale. So a lot of the picking up is done by f/as who are just as expensive as the ones dropping. And, you can explain how it's totally without cost to the company or other f/as to the reserves and the people who get reassigned when those seniors call in sick if no one picks up a trip.
And, I'm glad you think that putting in 35 hours a month "pays" for a f/as benefits. It doesn't. It "qualifies" them for paid benefits, but it does not pay for the benefits. There is a distinct financial difference in the two.
Neither bitter nor angry, just realistic.
And, talk about twisted, fallacious arguments. You went way around to try and justify the fact that it takes two f/as to do one job. And, that argument about someone picking up the trip is true only to an extent. Over 60% of the "active" f/a corps is already at top of scale. So a lot of the picking up is done by f/as who are just as expensive as the ones dropping. And, you can explain how it's totally without cost to the company or other f/as to the reserves and the people who get reassigned when those seniors call in sick if no one picks up a trip.
And, I'm glad you think that putting in 35 hours a month "pays" for a f/as benefits. It doesn't. It "qualifies" them for paid benefits, but it does not pay for the benefits. There is a distinct financial difference in the two.
Jim,
Your argument still doesn't hold water. And you are right, my husband and I have another business that pays for the bills. I underestand the concept of business, which you abviously don't. If this was hurting the company, believe me they would put a stop to it. Try to be empathetic to everyone and you will be less bitter. As you say, I am not the only one who has called you bitter.
I won't arfue the point with you anymore.
Merry Christmas.
Your argument still doesn't hold water. And you are right, my husband and I have another business that pays for the bills. I underestand the concept of business, which you abviously don't. If this was hurting the company, believe me they would put a stop to it. Try to be empathetic to everyone and you will be less bitter. As you say, I am not the only one who has called you bitter.
I won't arfue the point with you anymore.
Merry Christmas.
I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious, but help me out.
If people are NOT flying (like the people in the above example), wouldn't that create a position for someone more junior, and REDUCE the number of furloughs needed? And if the people like the one in the above example are forced to fly, it would lead to a reduced need for more junior people (since the senior people would be flying again), and thus lead to MORE furloughs?
jimntx
Veteran
Actually, the company was hoping that having to fly would encourage some of the dinosaurs to retire. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
