APFA Negotiates MORE FLYING

[jimntx]

Another piece of information...this month there are 57 people on RSV in SLT. Since the first day of the month (02DEC) through tomorrow (18DEC), there have been 41 reserve flying assignments made, and 5 of those were given to people who were already sitting standby that day. That is not even one assignment per reserve f/a, and the month is more than half over.

Now, if the VTF reduces the number of people on reserve, what happens to the f/as who are on reserve now and not flying? Availability? Then, in addition to paying senior mamas 4 hours of flight pay not to fly, you will have even more f/as being paid guarantee for AVBL, but not flying guarantee.

Granted, the AVBL guarantee is only 70 hours whereas the RSV guarantee is 75. And, I can easily see how that benefits the company. How does it benefit the f/as? You've just reduced their guarantee 5 hours/month, and that 5 hours was incentive pay rates. And, we are not the people that are going to be off reserve anyway.

There is something in this great new "benefit" that I'm just not seeing. But then, I only have 7 years. The APFA doesn't really see what benefits I need other than the privilege of paying them $43 each month.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Here in LGA I've sat one standby and done one DFW turn, which due to delays ended up at 8:15. I got a release for today and have three days off starting tomorrow (18th) so when my next duty day comes up on the 21st I'll have 13:15 GTD. Even if I average 5 hrs per day for my remaining 8 reserve days I'll finish up with under 55 hrs.

One reason there are so many people sitting around is that the OVL's were in blocks that required a return for Dec and Jan for most people. In Feb the OVL's begin again and the headcount will drop by about 500. Where's Garfield? I predict a smooth holiday for schedulers with so many bodies to pick from.

MK

 

[BigBangTheory]

I will be against this VTF deal. Just another way the APFA is selling us out. I will not VTF and fly OT trips. I only pick up from HiBoard and NEVER go on MU. Shame on the Negotiating team for even thinking of this. Shame on Laura Glading. Its time to recall Laura, Brett, Denise and Juan!

 

[jersey777]

I will be against this VTF deal. Just another way the APFA is selling us out. I will not VTF and fly OT trips. I only pick up from HiBoard and NEVER go on MU. Shame on the Negotiating team for even thinking of this. Shame on Laura Glading. Its time to recall Laura, Brett, Denise and Juan!

Tell me...what EXACTLY is your beef? Seriously.

 

[jimntx]

Ok, so you remove a bunch of people from RSV due to VTF. Those will be the people at the top of the list as it should be. However, since there will be a daily cap of how many people can be on VTF, and making it on to the list will be determined by seniority, exactly how many of those of us still on RSV do you think will make it on to the VTF list for the day? Be honest with yourself. I don't really care. I know the answer. NONE.

Senior f/as are not stupid. They will (as I would) see that this is an opportunity to regularly pick up an extra 4 hours of flight pay without actually having to fly. And, if they get a trip which ain't gonna happen that often, so what? The trip will pay even more, and they will be back home in their own bed that night.

This is the same baloney as the line 2000 availability. That was an agreement between the APFA and the company to put the most junior people in each base on reserve year-round and just not call it reserve (which would be a violation of the contract). That one backfired because the senior mamas who never flew or just flew the minimum 35 hours and who were only qualified on the 777 and 767, bid all the 2000 lines in each base; so, since there are never 777 or 767 trips in open time for more than a minute or two before someone grabs them, they were being paid 70 hours/month to not fly at all.

If the VTF succeeds, I think you will see more and more of the junior f/as quit because they just can't afford the job any longer. They are having a hard enough time as it is. This will result in the reserve list going more senior; so, it will be another self-defeating effort by the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed to give more bennies to the senior f/as at the expense of the junior f/as.

Again, the problem is not that the company has too many people on reserve--though that is also true. The problem is that there is no movement in the system. The reason people in DFW-D are still on reserve with 20+ years is because they are among the most junior people in the base. In every base, the junior people are the ones on reserve. Anyone in DFW-D with less than 10 years either barely missed being furloughed in 2003 and were not forced transferred elsewhere, or they have gotten a hardship transfer into DFW-D. Transfer junior people into DFW-D and you will see the reserve list seniority go more junior. Problem solved.

But, as long as the APFA protects those who never fly, the system will be static. That's another big slice of baloney. "We can't agree to Mininum Threshold Flying because the junior f/as depend upon those people to drop their trips." We can, however, agree to senior f/as using up what little OT flying might become available. When I look in HIBOARD now, there are rarely drop listings, only trades. Even for Christmas Day!

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

Tell me...what EXACTLY is your beef? Seriously.

VTF could have a negative impact on the recall of FURLOUGHED FLIGHT ATTENDANTS.

Please ........ WAKE UP.

 

[IORFA]

I know I am going to catch flack for saying this, but at this point with people barely flying on reserve and AVBL and with people out on overage leaves, does anyone really think anyone from the Nov 2009 group will be recalled? Let alone a few IF any from the June 2010 group? I'm just saying, AA is crazy overstaffed at this point. Even with an extra position on the 737, I don't think it is enough and it won't happen fast enough. By the time the last group of furlouhees is dropped from the list, only around 3/4 of the 737's will have been delivered. I'm ready for my retired friend to tell me how wrong I am and everyone will be recalled because AA is afraid of some alleged bad karma or something. I would like to say I am in favor of recalling everyone, problem is no one asked me nor do those who make those decisions care what I think. Nor do they really care what anyone thinks for that matter.

 

[Maark767]

I know I am going to catch flack for saying this, but at this point with people barely flying on reserve and AVBL and with people out on overage leaves, does anyone really think anyone from the Nov 2009 group will be recalled? Let alone a few IF any from the June 2010 group? I'm just saying, AA is crazy overstaffed at this point. Even with an extra position on the 737, I don't think it is enough and it won't happen fast enough. By the time the last group of furlouhees is dropped from the list, only around 3/4 of the 737's will have been delivered. I'm ready for my retired friend to tell me how wrong I am and everyone will be recalled because AA is afraid of some alleged bad karma or something. I would like to say I am in favor of recalling everyone, problem is no one asked me nor do those who make those decisions care what I think. Nor do they really care what anyone thinks for that matter.

I second having all F/As recalled but dont all recall rights expire Dec. 2009??? Isn't that the end of the two year extention ?? Whats this second group for June 2010 ???

 

[IORFA]

The last big group from summer 2003 after the RPA. I think it was May 31, 2003. I could be off a day or 2. So, with a 2 year extension, they have till 2010. As far as I know, there is only 2 groups of furloughees left. The big 2003 group that are the most senior and the group that is going to lose their recall rights around Nov. 1 or 11 2009. I can't remember the exact date, but think it is the 1st. The Nov. group is only a few hundred, I think the vast majority of the remaining furloughees are from after the RPA in 2003.

 

[jimntx]

The last furlough was 02JUL2003. That was when the great majority of the former TWA f/as were furloughed along with over 1000 of us "nAAtives" who were thrown under the bus with no furlough pay.

All of the f/as who were still on the furlough list were furloughed then. Their recall rights were to expire July 1, 2008. The two year extension takes all of them to July 1, 2010. There are no furloughees due to lose their recall rights in 2009.

 

[IORFA]

There is a group in Nov 2009. Jimntx you might be mistaken according to an APFA press release on APFA.org. I found the APFA press release dated 12-21-07, just can't copy it to paste it on here. It clearly talks about the 410 F/A's that were to lose their recall rights Nov. 1, 2007. If they didn't get the 2 year recall extension, they would already be off the list. Maybe someone can post it on here. It is easily found on APFA.org under press releases. The press release also suggests that the last furlough happened June 1st 2003. Thus as the release states they would lose recall rights after May 31st, 2008 without an extension. I guess APFA could be completely wrong, just don't think so.

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

From another site:

The VTF document appears to have been written by the company. That said,
what's the benefit to the company??? It appears to me that:

-- VTF translates into LESS MANNING.

-- LESS MANNING translates into FURLOUGHS

-- FURLOUGHS translate into LESS DUES REVENUE

-- LESS DUES REVENUE translates into DUES INCREASE

Given the fact that APFA unanimously passed a Resolution to increase dues,
it would seem to me that APFA is preparing itself for lost revenue.

 

[IORFA]

Just because APFA passed a resolution, doesn't mean we as a group are dumb enough to give them what they want. I would be really surprised if it ever passes. Although never say never.

 

[kirkpatrick]

In regard to furlough dates, here's what I show.

11/1/2007 430
1/31/2008 325
4/1/2008 317
5/1/2008 244
7/2/2008 1195

The dates are accurate but the numbers are old. I believe everyone in the 7/2 group has been offered recall or has retired already. I think the last recall class (online 3/25/08) included some May 1 people - someone please correct me if that's wrong. Unfortunately 147 AA-hires fell off on 10-13-07, missing the recall extension by just over two weeks.

MK

 

[jimntx]

There is a group in Nov 2009. Jimntx you might be mistaken according to an APFA press release on APFA.org. I found the APFA press release dated 12-21-07, just can't copy it to paste it on here. It clearly talks about the 410 F/A's that were to lose their recall rights Nov. 1, 2007. If they didn't get the 2 year recall extension, they would already be off the list. Maybe someone can post it on here. It is easily found on APFA.org under press releases. The press release also suggests that the last furlough happened June 1st 2003. Thus as the release states they would lose recall rights after May 31st, 2008 without an extension. I guess APFA could be completely wrong, just don't think so.

If APFA says that the last furlough happened on June 1st, 2003, then you are correct. THEY ARE COMPLETELY WRONG. I was furloughed on July 2, 2003 along with over 1000 nAAtives and all the former TW flight attendants that had not already been furloughed. We were the last group furloughed.

It is not possible that there would be a group that would lose their 5-year recall rights on Nov. 1, 2007 that were still on furlough. To lose their recall 11/1/2007, they would have to have been furloughed on 11/1/2002, and would have been offered recall before I was recalled. In fact, the first group to be recalled from the 7/2/2003 furlough were only off about 3 months (maybe more) and were recalled late in 2003 or early 2004. If I remember correctly, they were then furloughed again, but the clock started over on their 5-year recall. Nevertheless, they were senior to me and would have been offered recall before me.

I was recalled 17NOV2004. Anyone senior to me would either already be back, or they refused recall and have lost their recall rights. Someone at the APFA has things royally screwed up.

The only people left on the recall list were all furloughed on 02JUL2003. They are the most junior of the former TW f/as. The last two names on the Furlough List posted on the APFA website have seniority dates of Apr 10, 2001, and Apr 11, 2001. These are TW seniority dates. Also, they both have employee numbers that start with a 6. IIRC, for f/as those are all former TW people.