APFA Negotiates MORE FLYING

[jimntx]

In regard to furlough dates, here's what I show.

11/1/2007 430
1/31/2008 325
4/1/2008 317
5/1/2008 244
7/2/2008 1195

The dates are accurate but the numbers are old. I believe everyone in the 7/2 group has been offered recall or has retired already. I think the last recall class (online 3/25/08) included some May 1 people - someone please correct me if that's wrong. Unfortunately 147 AA-hires fell off on 10-13-07, missing the recall extension by just over two weeks.

MK

MK, don't you mean "in regard to loss of recall dates?" There was no one furloughed in 2007 and 2008. The 1195 still on the recall list were furloughed 7/2/2003. They were supposed to lose their recall rights on 7/2/2008 before the extension was agreed to.

 

[jimntx]

Just because APFA passed a resolution, doesn't mean we as a group are dumb enough to give them what they want. I would be really surprised if it ever passes. Although never say never.

It's already going to be tested for 2 or 3 months at DFW, IDF, DCA and DCA-I in early 2009. If it is declared a success (and since the company and the APFA are behind it, do you see either of them declaring it a failure? ), it will be written into the next contract. The only way to vote against it would be to vote down the entire contract.

 

[AAStew]

Did you even understand what this all means???? For starters, LESS RSV NUMBERS..... Thats good for everyone... everywhere !!!!
And for those F/A's who are on rsv, they will get a chance to fly and not have to worry about getting a 50hr paycheck every 4 th month. It's a know fact that you cant make cash on rsv.... now maybe you can...

I ddon't know what company you work for, but I get paid 75 hours on my reserve months, whether I fly or not.
Let's say there were a bunch of trips to pick up, with this system you are on an inefficient use of time and days off. And surely you didn't think the company would give everyone who wanted this option, the ability to have it?
Jim is correct, no one is flying on reserve. I am reserve at JFK and the average F/A has 12-15 hours and today is the 19th! Same story last month and overage people were still out then...

 

[jimntx]

And, let's say it again since Maark seems to have missed the point about the number of people on the VTF list each day. The number of people on the VTF list each day will be limited in each base and will be put on in seniority order. The people who are still subject to reserve will NOT make it on to the list. They will NOT be able to pick up additional flying over and above their guarantee.

 

[AAStew]

. If it is declared a success (and since the company and the APFA are behind it, do you see either of them declaring it a failure? ), it will be written into the next contract.

Brother Jim, you have the gift of prophecy!

 

[kirkpatrick]

MK, don't you mean "in regard to loss of recall dates?" There was no one furloughed in 2007 and 2008. The 1195 still on the recall list were furloughed 7/2/2003. They were supposed to lose their recall rights on 7/2/2008 before the extension was agreed to.

There were indeed furloughs on 11/1/02, 1/31/03, 4/1/03, 5/1/03 and 7/2/03. All were TWA people, with the most junior being furloughed first, of course. The final furlough on 7/2 finished off the TWA people and went about 1300 into the AA ranks. 390 were offered recall effective 12/2/03 and 610 on 11/17/04. The 11/1/02 group was not recalled first because they were junior.

Right after 9/11 there were large furloughs on both the AA and TWA sides (remember, the seniority lists hadn't been merged yet and furloughs occurred by seniority based on the needs of each separate operation). A couple of hundred from the AA side were recalled only to be laid off again 10/13/02. They lost their recall rights on 10/13/07, right before the extension was granted.

MK

 

[Maark767]

I ddon't know what company you work for, but I get paid 75 hours on my reserve months, whether I fly or not.
Let's say there were a bunch of trips to pick up, with this system you are on an inefficient use of time and days off. And surely you didn't think the company would give everyone who wanted this option, the ability to have it?
Jim is correct, no one is flying on reserve. I am reserve at JFK and the average F/A has 12-15 hours and today is the 19th! Same story last month and overage people were still out then...

What company do u work for ?? When have you only flown 15 hrs. RSV??? This low flying on RSV has only happened in the past two months .This something the company is doing around the holidays... .... AA surely is not going to continue this manner.....Now we all know that !!!!
I say leave RSV just the way it is.... It seems like there is no solution that will please everyone so leave well enough alone.

 

[IORFA]

It's already going to be tested for 2 or 3 months at DFW, IDF, DCA and DCA-I in early 2009. If it is declared a success (and since the company and the APFA are behind it, do you see either of them declaring it a failure? ), it will be written into the next contract. The only way to vote against it would be to vote down the entire contract.

I was commenting on APFA asking for a dues increase. NOT the vtf.

 

[IORFA]

There were indeed furloughs on 11/1/02, 1/31/03, 4/1/03, 5/1/03 and 7/2/03. All were TWA people, with the most junior being furloughed first, of course. The final furlough on 7/2 finished off the TWA people and went about 1300 into the AA ranks. 390 were offered recall effective 12/2/03 and 610 on 11/17/04. The 11/1/02 group was not recalled first because they were junior.

Right after 9/11 there were large furloughs on both the AA and TWA sides (remember, the seniority lists hadn't been merged yet and furloughs occurred by seniority based on the needs of each separate operation). A couple of hundred from the AA side were recalled only to be laid off again 10/13/02. They lost their recall rights on 10/13/07, right before the extension was granted.

MK

Apparantly, APFA was correct when they say that a group of F/A's lose recall rights on 11-1-09 after the original 5 year recall plus the 2 year extension. Jimntx, I think you are confused about something. Plus it seems that all of the 7-2-03 F/A's have been offered recall. It seems that the next drop off's occur 11-1-09, 1-31-10, 4-1-10 and 5-1-10 assuming no recalls are announced. Jimntx, did you go read the APFA press release dated 12-21-07? It might help clear things up.

 

[IORFA]

It's already going to be tested for 2 or 3 months at DFW, IDF, DCA and DCA-I in early 2009. If it is declared a success (and since the company and the APFA are behind it, do you see either of them declaring it a failure? ), it will be written into the next contract. The only way to vote against it would be to vote down the entire contract.

Now, jimntx, you really don't believe that everything AA and APFA try becomes part of our contract do you? That is just ignorant. Most probably do because they ended up working in the way both parties wanted. I can think of one recent test that both parties agreed to try and was canceled and has not become part of our contract. That would be the everyday Option II test. It didn't end up working out as envisioned, thus it was canceled and has NOT become a part of our contract.

 

[IORFA]

MK, don't you mean "in regard to loss of recall dates?" There was no one furloughed in 2007 and 2008. The 1195 still on the recall list were furloughed 7/2/2003. They were supposed to lose their recall rights on 7/2/2008 before the extension was agreed to.

As a clarification, APFA says there are 1180 awaiting recall.

 

[Skymess]

What company do u work for ?? When have you only flown 15 hrs. RSV??? This low flying on RSV has only happened in the past two months .This something the company is doing around the holidays... .... AA surely is not going to continue this manner.....Now we all know that !!!!
I say leave RSV just the way it is.... It seems like there is no solution that will please everyone so leave well enough alone.

They need to have A and B reserve rotations and high time (95), regular time (75), and low time (45-50) guarantee lines and stop the other nonsense. They can make most of the lines regular time and have a few of the high time and a few low time lines.

Some people want to fly on reserve and others don't. I don't. I don't care how much I lose, I hate reserve and don't want to deal with it.

 

[IORFA]

I know I am going to catch flack for saying this, but at this point with people barely flying on reserve and AVBL and with people out on overage leaves, does anyone really think anyone from the Nov 2009 group will be recalled? Let alone a few IF any from the June 2010 group? I'm just saying, AA is crazy overstaffed at this point. Even with an extra position on the 737, I don't think it is enough and it won't happen fast enough. By the time the last group of furlouhees is dropped from the list, only around 3/4 of the 737's will have been delivered. I'm ready for my retired friend to tell me how wrong I am and everyone will be recalled because AA is afraid of some alleged bad karma or something. I would like to say I am in favor of recalling everyone, problem is no one asked me nor do those who make those decisions care what I think. Nor do they really care what anyone thinks for that matter.

I guess AA answered my question regarding the Nov. 2009 cutoff. With PLOA's being offered through Nov. 2009, those F/A's taking the PLOA won't come back till after the F/A's fall off the list. Not to mention people are out on overage leaves as well. Too bad really, but with the way it has been going lately, they had to offer more leaves. It is almost embarrasing with how little AVBL and reserve have been working.

 

[jimntx]

This low flying on RSV has only happened in the past two months .This something the company is doing around the holidays... .... AA surely is not going to continue this manner.....Now we all know that !!!!

You aren't on reserve anymore, are you Maark? In fact, I would almost bet you haven't been on reserve in some time. In July, I only flew 55 hours on reserve, and I had higher time than most because I had brought some time into the month. I believe that July was more than two months ago. In truth, the low flying on reserve has been going on since last Spring.

Something the company is doing around the holidays? The holidays--particularly Thanksgiving and Christmas--have always been when reserves flew the most. A lot of lineholders seem susceptible to the "flu" about this time of year--or, at least they have been in the past. There's not even anyone on the sick list for tomorrow in SLT so far. The Sunday before Christmas!!!
(Although I did see one sequence for today change hands 3 times in less than 4 hours. They had to assign it to an availability f/a and two reserves before it stuck. )

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

Just because APFA passed a resolution, doesn't mean we as a group are dumb enough to give them what they want. I would be really surprised if it ever passes. Although never say never.

Oh yeah, forgive me. That's never happened before. Has it ?