JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, please. If anything is lower than what they have currently is a concession, period. If LUS has better health care coverage at a better cost than the LAA folks and they go to the TWU/AA health care, that's a concession. As you state the US health care is gone.
With or without the health care, as you call it, traded off, you guys should easily get your pension dollars increased without any trade off, period.
You are correct about the future pension cuts. teamsters once again are soon to get another 30% reduction in their pensions as I just read in an article, and yes, it was forced not voted on once again.
If they are proposing bringing in P/T to do what F/T positions are or were doing, then yes, that is a concession not only now but also continues into the future.
Tim, if any part of the contract is concessionary then your JCBA will be considered concessionary. If you and others are looking at it as not concessionary because only 3,4,5 or 6 articles are concessionary out of 30 articles, then you are seeing the contract without blinders on, your just trying to justify to yourself that you are ok with those concessions while other members will not be. Just because something may not affect you directly in the contract offer does not mean it's not concessionary to someone else down the ladder that it will affect for a very long time to come. That's right in line with the IGM'ers.

The union is goin to do a dues grab. It will pass. I talk to too many ord peeps that will just take the $32.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh, they got rid of it. I never said unlimited. But it was a big concession that management got in order to finally have the flexibility it wanted.
Not sure how they are going to sell it to the negotiation committee or local prez but prolly the same way the iam will sell losing lus health care. I recommend that you talk to alex. He knows im sure.

They got rid of what then if you're saying it's not unlimited?

Tim if you want to play the rumor game on this you need to be a lot more specific than this?

Are you claiming the TWU PT Cap % has been raised? PTer's will be in the mix for OT? Be more specific man?

 

[Albert]

Well, it's one of a couple of three things, all rumors...You will no longer be able to view your paychecks in epays, you must guess what you made (concession). They are doing away with Direct Deposit and will send you a check directly
(an industry leading win for the Association). Or, they are outsourcing epays and all our money related matters, something of course Bob thinks the company must do to stay competitive...

I wish I thought of that last one

 

[Albert]

They got rid of what then if you're saying it's not unlimited?

Tim if you want to play the rumor game on this you need to be a lot more specific than this?

Are you claiming the TWU PT Cap % has been raised? PTer's will be in the mix for OT? Be more specific man?

Weez what do you mean about PTers in the OT mix?

 

[AANOTOK]

I too would like know what the "cheat sheet" said they agreed to in the AIP in a little more detail.
You can Grandfather all the folks you want in, but if there is no specific language to what days and what shifts a PT can hold, then you are asking for trouble. On our BK contract, AA's objective was to outsource ALL jobs that most senior FT have and were bidding over the years and basically leave the ramp as the only work area remaining. The increase in PT can serve as the same purpose if there isn't tough language in there. As for the OT, the exhaustion of PT first before you check FT should be a non starter as well. But you combine PT and non OT working FT votes, that may be a losing battle. Time will tell.

 

[AANOTOK]

I'd also like to know the difference between our AA company CS policy and the one the Association apparently has TA'd.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez what do you mean about PTers in the OT mix?

From what I understand in your contract PT can sign up for "OT" and be called before a FT if they have lower hours. If they haven't reached a FT threshold they'll just be paid at straight time.

In our contract a PT can sign up for extra hours but he'll only be called once the FT list has been exhausted.

Changing that would be both a philosophical difference and a way for the Company to cut down on OT expense. Include PT in the mix.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'd also like to know the difference between our AA company CS policy and the one the Association apparently has TA'd.

You "may" want to read the PSA contract? Just saying here.

 

[WeAAsles]

I too would like know what the "cheat sheet" said they agreed to in the AIP in a little more detail.
You can Grandfather all the folks you want in, but if there is no specific language to what days and what shifts a PT can hold, then you are asking for trouble. On our BK contract, AA's objective was to outsource ALL jobs that most senior FT have and were bidding over the years and basically leave the ramp as the only work area remaining. The increase in PT can serve as the same purpose if there isn't tough language in there. As for the OT, the exhaustion of PT first before you check FT should be a non starter as well. But you combine PT and non OT working FT votes, that may be a losing battle. Time will tell.

I'm personally not going to trust Tims "cheat sheet" since it probably has disappearing ink but I will keep a very keen eye on that PT language when we finally get the TA to look over.

 

[NYer]

No I never rely 100% on rumors. However rumors are out there directly tied to this asso. not keeping their membership in the know. By keeping contract nego's hidden from them is what starts all rumors and totally misinformed members will start to believe said rumors until they are brought into the know. I have told you guys time and time again about this. Not saying Tim is 100% correct here, but I will tell you one thing, you guys can call it rumors all you want to, to try and keep the membership from getting any more pissed, just like the asso. did by promising and guaranteeing a vote on this asso. so not to get the TWU and IAM shown the door. I predict the exact same thing here. They will promise no concessions until BAM!!! They slide that new JCBA in front of you to vote on and finally read all the concessions they were hiding from the membership this whole time, trust me it's coming. I just cannot believe you guys are still so trustworthy of this union (asso.) remember it was created by the TWU and the IAM with both of them having very, very problematic histories. That's fine, you all believe they are just rumors ok. When you finally see and read the concessions coming to you I will sit back and tell you, "told you so" just like I did with the asso. vote, as well as the pensions. Just keep believing this asso., incredible. You guys are just like the abused wife/girlfriend who keeps going back for more. Cue video of college hazing of member getting paddled and saying, "thank sir may I have another" over and over and over again...

Agree wholeheartedly.

The lack of information is what creates the void being filled by rumors. Not setting the proper expectations is also something that will ultimately hurt the process and could make a JCBA vote fail miserably because most are looking for no steps backward, which is impossible in negotiations of this type.

I do believe without the Association things would be worse and we'd be embroiled in a representational fight that would make AMFA look like a dollar raffle. That being said, the execution of the Association has been horrendous.

 

[NYer]

I know. And some here will just keep the blinders on forever. Ya know, they are just rumors until they are verified at vote time.

There are some that are trolls and others that will believe whatever they are told without putting too much effort in creating their own determination of the information they receive. If it comes from someone they like then they will peddle it like if it's the truth.

 

[Albert]

From what I understand in your contract PT can sign up for "OT" and be called before a FT if they have lower hours. If they haven't reached a FT threshold they'll just be paid at straight time.

In our contract a PT can sign up for extra hours but he'll only be called once the FT list has been exhausted.

Changing that would be both a philosophical difference and a way for the Company to cut down on OT expense. Include PT in the mix.

No Weez our list has to be exhausted as well

 

[737823]

Actually, the DOL became involved and overturned an election for Local 568 in 2009. Some of the folks WeAA ran with were involved in a scheme to try and diminish the number of members eligible to run for office. The DOL overturned their decision and forced a new election. The President of the Local when that change was made is now in with the International.

Then in the most recent elections, some of the same people involved in 2009, with whom WeAA ran with, hatched another scheme and tried to take away the eligibility of a group of members so they couldn't run for office either. The DOL was also aware of that situations and under scrutiny, the participants in that scheme were forced to rescind the ineligibility tag.

So, two out the last three elections in Local 568 had attempts to rig the elections in favor of a common group. Needless to say, they lost in a rebuke of their actions.

I don't know anything about this but seems you have an ax to grind against WeAA. Why did you transfer to MIA? Were you even active in 568 at the time? Was WeAA?

Bottom line is there have been numerous instances that the DOL has intervened with IAM elections across various tiers of their organization and it is well documented.

At least the TWU delivers for the membership at WN and in the public sector. And as Bob says they ultimately got rid of Jim Little, Bobby Gless and Don V. The IAM has some of the same people presiding at the top as they started the concessions train.

Josh

 

[Albert]

I'm personally not going to trust Tims "cheat sheet" since it probably has disappearing ink but I will keep a very keen eye on that PT language when we finally get the TA to look over.

Do you realize that when they hire all these PTers to stop OT,they have to pay medical. So if they hire 10 PTers they might be hiring 6 pregnant wives 20 kids that need braces ,10 kids that have Asthma and need meds and regular MD visits etc. what are they really saving? Now RR that's a different story, that I hope we don't have to get into

 

[NYer]

I don't know anything about this but seems you have an ax to grind against WeAA. Why did you transfer to MIA? Were you even active in 568 at the time? Was WeAA?

Bottom line is there have been numerous instances that the DOL has intervened with IAM elections across various tiers of their organization and it is well documented.

At least the TWU delivers for the membership at WN and in the public sector. And as Bob says they ultimately got rid of Jim Little, Bobby Gless and Don V. The IAM has some of the same people presiding at the top as they started the concessions train.

Josh

Been in MIA, and involved, far longer than WeAA has.