JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Koolcat]

In retrospective, would it been better for the association to have picked a cba and worked from that, instead of trying to mesh two totally different contracts???

 

[WeAAsles]

In retrospective, would it been better for the association to have picked a cba and worked from that, instead of trying to mesh two totally different contracts???

Life would also be so much easier if people could just learn to accept the flip of a coin to settle differences sometimes.

But nnnnoooooo can't have that can we.

 

[NYer]

In retrospective, would it been better for the association to have picked a cba and worked from that, instead of trying to mesh two totally different contracts???

Probably was a bad idea to publish their negotiation positions in December 2015. Since they publicly went high they were met in the negotiations sessions with the opposite, low ball offers.

That made it very easy to predict this was going to take a long time. It seems the NC was surprised with the contents of the comprehensive proposal, but they shouldn't have been that path was set early in the process.

 

[ograc]

Sorry ograc but that was the biggest show of Unity at AA that I've seen in my 22 years here bar none. The sign up sheet had over 3000 names on it for the entire day.

There was in attendance TWU, IAM, APA, APFA, CWA, IBT, AMFA and MORE. ALL putting aside any personal squabbles for a common goal.

You are ssssoooooo wrong here. The Company I heard expected at most maybe 300 people. Certainly not 3000. This event was pure UNITY and SOLIDARITY......

In the end we will see if I am sooooo wrong here. We will see if this picketing has changed the company's agenda in negotiations. Unity and solidarity is certainly not being demonstrated on this forum. All I see is in house division and fighting. One day of informational picketing could be seen as a flash in the pan by the company. A paper lion; so to speak. Time will tell. In the end you may be the one who is soooo wrong. I guess you assume we have our house in order now and the company is going to cave in negotiations. We shall see. You are entitled to your opinion and perceptions. Please don't assume that they are always correct.

 

[Koolcat]

Probably was a bad idea to publish their negotiation positions in December 2015. Since they publicly went high they were met in the negotiations sessions with the opposite, low ball offers.

That made it very easy to predict this was going to take a long time. It seems the NC was surprised with the contents of the comprehensive proposal, but they shouldn't have been that path was set early in the process.

Then what path should they have taken, there has to be a point of origin when negotiating

 

[Koolcat]

I would agree that once you start from the top in negotiations with the company and you meet them in the middle then you have conceded and have made concessions.

 

[charlie Brown]

In retrospective, would it been better for the association to have picked a cba and worked from that, instead of trying to mesh two totally different contracts???

Koolcat
Don't think that would have been the right way to go. The twu contract was a bankrupt contract as you know. And the IAM while not a bankrupt contract, still had many things that we put off until this jcba.
Besides keep in mind that the company is always proposing language and changes. They are taking what is best for them out of both contracts and trying to push it through.

 

[NYer]

Then what path should they have taken, there has to be a point of origin when negotiating

Sure. The point of origin could have been the same as it was. The issue is that since they made their position public it just makes moving forward more difficult.

Don't want to give in too soon and at the same time, because the positions are public, it takes longer to move on.

 

[NYer]

I would agree that once you start from the top in negotiations with the company and you meet them in the middle then you have conceded and have made concessions.

If you start at the very top, they will start at the very bottom. Takes longer to move towards the eventual agreement.

 

[charlie Brown]

Probably was a bad idea to publish their negotiation positions in December 2015. Since they publicly went high they were met in the negotiations sessions with the opposite, low ball offers.

That made it very easy to predict this was going to take a long time. It seems the NC was surprised with the contents of the comprehensive proposal, but they shouldn't have been that path was set early in the process.

Wasn't really a surprise from the IAM side. Maybe it was from the twu side. We on the IAM side have dealt with this management team before in negotiations, we kind of knew what to expect in the comprehensive proposal. Yes we went high on our original proposal, because we knew whenever they came back, they would go low. And yes, both sides know we will meet somewhere in the middle. The battle is always getting to that middle ground and tilting it our way a little instead of the company's way.

 

[NYer]

Koolcat
Don't think that would have been the right way to go. The twu contract was a bankrupt contract as you know. And the IAM while not a bankrupt contract, still had many things that we put off until this jcba.
Besides keep in mind that the company is always proposing language and changes. They are taking what is best for them out of both contracts and trying to push it through.

The financial pieces may have been a BK CBA but there are many Articles in which there were no changes during the BK.

I'm sure you'll agree that most, if not all, of the TA'd Articles did not survive in their current structure.

 

[WeAAsles]

Then what path should they have taken, there has to be a point of origin when negotiating

I'd like to think (hope) that between both Unions, experienced Negotiators, Lawyers, Economists and their own financial resources they knew what they were doing.

NYer seems to forget that there are some people involved in these Negotiations that graduated from Law School when he was still in Grade School.

I don't think any of us conversing with each other here on Forums have Law Degrees. (We like to pretend we do though, me included)

 

[NYer]

Wasn't really a surprise from the IAM side. Maybe it was from the twu side. We on the IAM side have dealt with this management team before in negotiations, we kind of knew what to expect in the comprehensive proposal. Yes we went high on our original proposal, because we knew whenever they came back, they would go low. And yes, both sides know we will meet somewhere in the middle. The battle is always getting to that middle ground and tilting it our way a little instead of the company's way.

Were there any conversations with the Company on the mutual positions for negotiating before the written Association Positions was released?

 

[WeAAsles]

Sure. The point of origin could have been the same as it was. The issue is that since they made their position public it just makes moving forward more difficult.

Don't want to give in too soon and at the same time, because the positions are public, it takes longer to move on.

So your philosophy when it comes to both Unionism and Negotiations is to be as secretive to the General membership as possible?

I'm sorry but seriously that's what I'm getting out of your comment here.

And I'm not saying that you might not be correct before you get defensive again?

 

[NYer]

So your philosophy when it comes to both Unionism and Negotiations is to be as secretive to the General membership as possible?

I'm sorry but seriously that's what I'm getting out of your comment here.

And I'm not saying that you might not be correct before you get defensive again?

Because we're getting soooooo much information now?

Stop with your overt political nit-picking. It's embarrassing.