JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

In the end we will see if I am sooooo wrong here. We will see if this picketing has changed the company's agenda in negotiations. Unity and solidarity is certainly not being demonstrated on this forum. All I see is in house division and fighting. One day of informational picketing could be seen as a flash in the pan by the company. A paper lion; so to speak. Time will tell. In the end you may be the one who is soooo wrong. I guess you assume we have our house in order now and the company is going to cave in negotiations. We shall see. You are entitled to your opinion and perceptions. Please don't assume that they are always correct.

What I see here on Forums is lots of folks who aren't very honest IMO.

I don't think the Company Negotiators are stupid enough to formulate their proposals again off of us here.

In the past they may have? But this Forums is not what it used to be and I'm sure they can see that.

 

[charlie Brown]

The financial pieces may have been a BK CBA but there are many Articles in which there were no changes during the BK.

I'm sure you'll agree that most, if not all, of the TA'd Articles did not survive in their current structure.

Yes I do agree. And don't get me wrong. The twu contract has some very good " surviving language" that we are trying to implement in the jcba. But my point was that since it's been through bk, that you would not have wanted to just use that single cba. I would assume, that everyone on here would prefer a better contract, than just improving on what's left of a bk contract.

 

[Koolcat]

The financial pieces may have been a BK CBA but there are many Articles in which there were no changes during the BK.

I'm sure you'll agree that most, if not all, of the TA'd Articles did not survive in their current structure.

I would agree

 

[WeAAsles]

Because we're getting soooooo much information now?

Stop with your overt political nit-picking. It's embarrassing.

WAIT?????? On the one hand it sounds as if you disagree that our Negotiators released the initial proposal and now you're saying you aren't getting enough information (publicly) about what's going on?

Do you think they should release what has been TA'd?

Are you wanting to find out about that PT OT issue? IAM language or TWU language?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Yes we went high on our original proposal, because we knew whenever they came back, they would go low. And yes, both sides know we will meet somewhere in the middle. The battle is always getting to that middle ground and tilting it our way a little instead of the company's way.

i realize that it may be professionally suicidal for elected and/or appointed iam negotiators to publicly say that they would consider bending on lus x laa medical...

...it may be palatable, if say, management is made aware of your vulnerable position(s) (elections in jan. '18??) and you counter with wage increases that are top-heavy at the start of the contract.

if the company acknowledges and is ok with fleet service topping out at $35.50/hr, earning $33.00 on date of signing should take much of the sting out of increased medical. for those legacy lus who believe that we will top out at $35.50 along with keeping their current medical, someone needs to explain the word, delusional, to them. that is more than out-of-line considering the weakness of unions in 2017 usa.

i don't argue and agree why not get it all. i won't say that is absurd...but, a very slim chance and ole slim just took the bus out of town.

the alternative is that the longer this drags on, the 2 parts of the assoc. may start eating each other with laa x lus employees taking militant sides.

 

[Koolcat]

What I see here on Forums is lots of folks who aren't very honest IMO.

I don't think the Company Negotiators are stupid enough to formulate their proposals again off of us here.

In the past they may have? But this Forums is not what it used to be and I'm sure they can see that.

I would hope they would formulate their proposals off the airline industry environment moving forward

 

[WeAAsles]

I would hope they would formulate their proposals off the airline industry environment moving forward

Seems to me that Doug Parker keeps spouting how incredibly fruitful that environment is moving into the future.

The man keeps saying Billions and billions in profits yearly.

It's like a money waterfall.

 

[Koolcat]

i realize that it may be professionally suicidal for elected and/or appointed iam negotiators to publicly say that they would consider bending on lus x laa medical...

...it may be palatable, if say, management is made aware of your vulnerable position(s) (elections in jan. '18??) and you counter with wage increases that are top-heavy at the start of the contract.

if the company acknowledges and is ok with fleet service topping out at $35.50/hr, earning $33.00 on date of signing should take much of the sting out of increased medical. for those legacy lus who believe that we will top out at $35.50 along with keeping their current medical, someone needs to explain the word, delusional, to them. that is more than out-of-line considering the weakness of unions in 2017 usa.

i don't argue and agree why not get it all. i won't say that is absurd...but, a very slim chance and ole slim just took the bus out of town.

the alternative is that the longer this drags on, the 2 parts of the assoc. may start eating each other with laa x lus employees taking militant sides.

You won't see militancy, you'll see abdication

 

[WeAAsles]

You won't see militancy, you'll see abdication

Capitulation = Compromise?

 

[NYer]

Yes I do agree. And don't get me wrong. The twu contract has some very good " surviving language" that we are trying to implement in the jcba. But my point was that since it's been through bk, that you would not have wanted to just use that single cba. I would assume, that everyone on here would prefer a better contract, than just improving on what's left of a bk contract.

I suspect the JCBA will be met with jeers because the expectation of what it may entail has not been shared with the Members. It seems you agree that the December 2015 Positions was a realistic end point but merely a high starting point to cover their expected low starting point in the hope to everything meet in the middle.

If that's the case, then there was a miscalculation because the Members have the 2015 expectations and that hasn't been addressed with the Members since. They may be waiting for all that was included in that set of positions, when in fact there had been movement in certain areas.

We may be in danger of having Members interpret getting anything less than those publicized positions as concessions.

 

[Koolcat]

Yes I do agree. And don't get me wrong. The twu contract has some very good " surviving language" that we are trying to implement in the jcba. But my point was that since it's been through bk, that you would not have wanted to just use that single cba. I would assume, that everyone on here would prefer a better contract, than just improving on what's left of a bk contract.

You don't mention using the IAM contract as a starting point? Why??

 

[NYer]

WAIT?????? On the one hand it sounds as if you disagree that our Negotiators released the initial proposal and now you're saying you aren't getting enough information (publicly) about what's going on?

Do you think they should release what has been TA'd?

Are you wanting to find out about that PT OT issue? IAM language or TWU language?

You try so hard to find a "gotcha."

Let's do it this way. If they released the positions when they started then they should have kept that up. If they weren't going to release any information then they should have kept the positions under straps as well. Simple.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes I do agree. And don't get me wrong. The twu contract has some very good " surviving language" that we are trying to implement in the jcba. But my point was that since it's been through bk, that you would not have wanted to just use that single cba. I would assume, that everyone on here would prefer a better contract, than just improving on what's left of a bk contract.

I don't know why some people assume all you used was the AA IAM and TWU books to formulate language. You had old CBA books, UAL and SWA that you could work off of also. Not to mention off the head original ideas as well.

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's do it this way. If they released the positions when they started then they should have kept that up. If they weren't going to release any information then they should have kept the positions under straps as well. Simple.

I agree 100%

 

[Koolcat]

I don't know why some people assume all you used was the AA IAM and TWU books to formulate language. You had old CBA books, UAL and SWA that you could work off of also. Not to mention off the head original ideas as well.

There is nothing original in the airline industry anymore