JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Deleted member 14439]

https://alliedpilots-wo4xq97.vids.io/videos/a09adbb1191ae8cf28/twu-picketing-event

 

[Deleted member 14439]

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/...-airlines-ground-workers-plan-protest-of.html

 

[Koolcat]

I must say that's a pathetic statement, and view of the healthcare plans. Based on what I'm seeing here, it appears as if most of the LAA people are happy and willing to keep the lesser of the 2 plans for a few more perks. As I've said before, LUS went cheap anyway that they could, but somehow found a way to offer us a far superior healthcare plan. I'm actually astounded that the pilot and F/A groups were willing to accept the lesser of the plans. After doing a comparison of the LAA & LUS plans, accepting the lesser of the 2 would be a deal breaker concession for me. I can't afford the 100% family plan myself, but the 90% has fit my needs well for the cost. It's pretty simple to come to the conclusion that paying more for less isn't the way to be going here.
I realize that the LAA people aren't technically giving up anything, but can't understand why you wouldn't want to better your coverage. I have to assume that at one point that you had much better, and went to what you currently have as a concession of some sort.

What's pathetic is thinking that the twu will throw their part timers under the bus like USair and have them pay double to supplement healthcare.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Points to Ponder

Item 1: Why should LUS pay 14% plus the increases in the deductible and out of pocket, yet LAA won't have the increases in cost. So it is a concession to all the IAM workgroups. It's an increase in cost. This has nothing to do with our pay raise. We already paid for the pay raise by coughing up the cross utilization concession which I supported in that scenario. Makes no sense to "Double Down" and 'renegotiate something already negotiated. Stupid. We got the money and the $30.87 was already paid for. Had nothing to do with JCBA or health benefits.

It's a concession and reduction to all of the LUS in dollars. Plain and simple. Sorry but no JCBA until the TWU unifies around the LUS health care for its members. Yes, the IAM should still picket and yes we should still be building solidarity but nothing is going to be gained if the TWU doesn't strongly support our LUS health care. I want a contract ASAP because we need to advance our contract into further cost positive territory. But LUS has more fat than LAA and we can wait it out and not bow down to management if we don't want to. We have no-displacement language and the company wants that bad. So do you but the TWU peeps are burning daylight and cash by having the worst contract in the industry.


Why should LAA get my holidays, double time and vacation which is an increase but LAA wants to screw all the LUS with much higher healthcare costs and worse coverage? How is that being a good union and brother and sister? Get Real!

Sorry but I don't think LUS is interested in decreasing our buying power and reducing total compensation while LAA want to gain the LUS vacation, double time and holidays, which increases their compensation

And although the IAM pension has issues, the TWU also gave the IAM its word that it would prioritize the IAMNPF

Item 2: Screw Management. This is the biggest airline in the world and management is being less than unfair. The Union should look into a legal corporate campaign and hit back, much like the stews did. We are the biggest union on the property and need to consider all legal options.

Item 3: Solidarity. Whatever the contention is above, we all have to stick together. Yes, it is disappointing that the IAM hasn't offered a letter, but I have a hunch that the TWU doesn't want to bother doubling down on better health care for its members by supporting ours. Dunno but I haven't heard any TWU negotiator mention how cruddy their insurance is. That begs the question, why?

 

[lax]

Wings Devils advocate questions.

Should or are you ok with PT subsidizing your cost?

Do you think the Company would match those costs and still give us raises?

Could the Company perhaps offer us less in wages to subsidize the Medical cost in effect meaning I would be penalized for not choosing to have a family?

Do you think you were paid less in wages in the past compared to the rest of the industry because you were subsidizing your own medical?

Is what you pay comparable to LAA, UAL, DAL and SWA Ramp?

Again a personal preference but I think higher wages benefit all to do with as they please and pay for items they want or need. I obviously wouldn't be paying for a Family plan so I can invest in myself in other areas. You can use your extra wages to pay for that Family Medical.

Devils advocate.

AMEN! someone gets it!

 

[lax]

Points to Ponder

Item 1: Why should LUS pay 14% plus the increases in the deductible and out of pocket, yet LAA won't have the increases in cost. So it is a concession to all the IAM workgroups. It's an increase in cost. This has nothing to do with our pay raise. We already paid for the pay raise by coughing up the cross utilization concession which I supported in that scenario. Makes no sense to "Double Down" and 'renegotiate something already negotiated. Stupid. We got the money and the $30.87 was already paid for. Had nothing to do with JCBA or health benefits.

It's a concession and reduction to all of the LUS in dollars. Plain and simple. Sorry but no JCBA until the TWU unifies around the LUS health care for its members. Yes, the IAM should still picket and yes we should still be building solidarity but nothing is going to be gained if the TWU doesn't strongly support our LUS health care. I want a contract ASAP because we need to advance our contract into further cost positive territory. But LUS has more fat than LAA and we can wait it out and not bow down to management if we don't want to. We have no-displacement language and the company wants that bad. So do you but the TWU peeps are burning daylight and cash by having the worst contract in the industry.


Why should LAA get my holidays, double time and vacation which is an increase but LAA wants to screw all the LUS with much higher healthcare costs and worse coverage? How is that being a good union and brother and sister? Get Real!

Sorry but I don't think LUS is interested in decreasing our buying power and reducing total compensation while LAA want to gain the LUS vacation, double time and holidays, which increases their compensation

And although the IAM pension has issues, the TWU also gave the IAM its word that it would prioritize the IAMNPF

Item 2: Screw Management. This is the biggest airline in the world and management is being less than unfair. The Union should look into a legal corporate campaign and hit back, much like the stews did. We are the biggest union on the property and need to consider all legal options.

Item 3: Solidarity. Whatever the contention is above, we all have to stick together. Yes, it is disappointing that the IAM hasn't offered a letter, but I have a hunch that the TWU doesn't want to bother doubling down on better health care for its members by supporting ours. Dunno but I haven't heard any TWU negotiator mention how cruddy their insurance is. That begs the question, why?

it's ok for lus to ride laa coat tails but not the other way around? ok got it! lus has received over an $11 raise because of laa. if you think that was only for cross utilization you're kidding yourself!

 

[cltrat]

first off we didn't get 11 an hour so you don't know what you're talking and if you think w got it because of you you're talking out your backside

 

[Tim Nelson]

it's ok for lus to ride laa coat tails but not the other way around? ok got it! lus has received over an $11 raise because of laa. if you think that was only for cross utilization you're kidding yourself!

LUS had our health care through 2 bankruptcies. Never rode any LAA coattails for that. We got the $11 raise for the same reasons LAA did, i.e., cross utilization AND because Parker was forced to reopen the stews and pilot contracts and toss more at them. He couldn't do that without resolving the same Delta parity issues with other unions.

At any rate, the past is the past. The question remains, Why should LAA get my holidays, double time and vacation which is an increase but LAA wants to screw all the LUS with much higher healthcare costs and worse coverage? How is that being a good union and brother and sister?

We can argue this question until the fat lady sings but the IAM has veto power so it is meaningless how many TWU members there are, as opposed to IAM members. Not being crude, just honest....it doesn't matter if the TWU has 20 times as many members since the "Association" has total control and the TWU voided its certification on the property to the NMB. If LUS Healthcare is a deal breaker then nothing else matters if Sito says so. And we all know how much hatred Sito has of the TWU after him and his fellow TWA peeps got hosed. Sorta like the TWA coming back to haunt the TWU.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

On the surface, of course LAA would prefer the LUS medical plan. You talk of it being a concession for LUS to be moved to LAA medical, fine. LAA is living that concession now. The Aug 2016 pay raise was the same for all groups. Yet the LAA folks raise does not go nearly as far due to our higher costs. AS far as "your" holidays, double time etc. Save it. We had all that and more prior to the 2003 concessionary contract. All you're doing with your rant about medical costs is dividing an already fractured group. It's not helping things at all.

 

[pjirish317]

On the surface, of course LAA would prefer the LUS medical plan. You talk of it being a concession for LUS to be moved to LAA medical, fine. LAA is living that concession now. The Aug 2016 pay raise was the same for all groups. Yet the LAA folks raise does not go nearly as far due to our higher costs. AS far as "your" holidays, double time etc. Save it. We had all that and more prior to the 2003 concessionary contract. All you're doing with your rant about medical costs is dividing an already fractured group. It's not helping things at all.

dvlhog,

We all lived some sort of concessions at one time or another. LUS went through 2 seperate bankruptcies and had our entire CBA gutted twice. The point is, our medical survived all of those. What I think hurts this group are comments like the one lax made that LUS is riding the coat tails of LAA and that LUS got the raise because of LAA. Let me ask you, do you honestly think absent this merger, that either group, LUS or LAA would be making the $$$$ per hour we make now? I certainly don't. That raise was from the "new" American, not from either LUS or LAA, both of those companies went away, and now we have the "new" American. We are in this together, and should be looking to have the best of both CBA's. Where that lands will be a concession for one side or another. There just isn't any way around that fact. But what we can do is support each other in trying to get the best of both. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[lax]

first off we didn't get 11 an hour so you don't know what you're talking and if you think w got it because of you you're talking out your backside

We got the $11 raise for the same reasons LAA did, i.e., cross utilization AND because Parker was......

Tim says you did...argue the truth with him

 

[lax]

How is that being a good union and brother and sister?

We can argue this question until the fat lady sings but the IAM has veto power so it is meaningless how many TWU members there are, as opposed to IAM members. Not being crude, just honest....it doesn't matter if the TWU has 20 times as many members since the "Association" has total control and the TWU voided its certification on the property to the NMB. If LUS Healthcare is a deal breaker then nothing else matters if Sito says so. And we all know how much hatred Sito has of the TWU after him and his fellow TWA peeps got hosed. Sorta like the TWA coming back to haunt the TWU.

very telling that you are a fan of this un- democratic process. and you have real nerve questioning who's a good/bad union brother. everything is great when lus receives all of laa's benefits. but any talk of laa having parity or God forbid an ounce more, then we're bad union brothers. for laa this is twa all over again. and what's worse is we can't even vote. so much for unionism. smh again and again

 

[pjirish317]

very telling that you are a fan of this un- democratic process. and you have real nerve questioning who's a good/bad union brother. everything is great when lus receives all of laa's benefits. but any talk of laa having parity or God forbid an ounce more, then we're bad union brothers. for laa this is twa all over again. and what's worse is we can't even vote. so much for unionism. smh again and again

lax,

Honest question for you. What LAA benefits are LUS receiving? I would love for LAA to have parity with LUS. Unfortunately, getting parity isn't what the company wants right now. If they did, you would have it. And by getting it we would have a JCBA to vote on. IMO LAA should have at least gotten parity with holidays, doubletime, holiday pay, medical and vacations when we got the raise for the cross utilization. And how is this TWA all over again? Can you please explain?

 

[Traymark]

And although the IAM pension has issues, the TWU also gave the IAM its word that it would prioritize the IAMNPF

True, however the TWU did not expect the members to drill down on the IAMPF and discover it was an abject disaster and the top level of the TWU now understands, the IAMPF cannot be forced on the membership because the TWU side has a weighted portion of the vote on an TA, it won't pass if the LAA TWU side doesn't want it.

Item 2: Screw Management. This is the biggest airline in the world and management is being less than unfair. The Union should look into a legal corporate campaign and hit back, much like the stews did. We are the biggest union on the property and need to consider all legal options.

Totally Agree.

it's ok for lus to ride laa coat tails but not the other way around? ok got it! lus has received over an $11 raise because of laa. if you think that was only for cross utilization you're kidding yourself!

I get what you are saying, but there is a better way to say it. Delivery is everything.

LUS had our health care through 2 bankruptcies. Never rode any LAA coattails for that. We got the $11 raise for the same reasons LAA did, i.e., cross utilization AND because Parker was forced to reopen the stews and pilot contracts and toss more at them. He couldn't do that without resolving the same Delta parity issues with other unions.

At any rate, the past is the past. The question remains, Why should LAA get my holidays, double time and vacation which is an increase but LAA wants to screw all the LUS with much higher healthcare costs and worse coverage? How is that being a good union and brother and sister?

We can argue this question until the fat lady sings but the IAM has veto power so it is meaningless how many TWU members there are, as opposed to IAM members. Not being crude, just honest....it doesn't matter if the TWU has 20 times as many members since the "Association" has total control and the TWU voided its certification on the property to the NMB. If LUS Healthcare is a deal breaker then nothing else matters if Sito says so. And we all know how much hatred Sito has of the TWU after him and his fellow TWA peeps got hosed. Sorta like the TWA coming back to haunt the TWU.

Tim,
Did anyone at any time think that a JCBA was going to have a different set of holidays, vacation, double time and healthcare of each of the groups?
Of course they are all going to be the same at the end of the day.

Let's be intellectually honest about your health insurance that you kept through 27 BK's.
You kept it because you were the lowest paid among among any of the major airlines, and it wasn't even close.
In other words, your extremely low pay was used to pay for your own benefit of a lower cost health insurance. Now your pay was brought back up to where everyone else is.
Do you think that would have happened if there was no merger? It's debatable, not a certainty.

WeAAs has started to drill down on the real numbers of the insurance and again, if we are intellectually honest with ourselves, I don't think the number is as big as folks are making it out to be and quite frankly, you've all probably been made more than whole with the $11 per hr raise to far more than make up any short comings with LAA health insurance.
I pay about $130 per month and it covers me and my two kids, I just don't see what everyone is jumping up and down and throwing themselves on the floor about.

 

[WeAAsles]

Points to Ponder

Item 1: Why should LUS pay 14% plus the increases in the deductible and out of pocket, yet LAA won't have the increases in cost. So it is a concession to all the IAM workgroups. It's an increase in cost. This has nothing to do with our pay raise. We already paid for the pay raise by coughing up the cross utilization concession which I supported in that scenario. Makes no sense to "Double Down" and 'renegotiate something already negotiated. Stupid. We got the money and the $30.87 was already paid for. Had nothing to do with JCBA or health benefits.

It's a concession and reduction to all of the LUS in dollars. Plain and simple. Sorry but no JCBA until the TWU unifies around the LUS health care for its members. Yes, the IAM should still picket and yes we should still be building solidarity but nothing is going to be gained if the TWU doesn't strongly support our LUS health care. I want a contract ASAP because we need to advance our contract into further cost positive territory. But LUS has more fat than LAA and we can wait it out and not bow down to management if we don't want to. We have no-displacement language and the company wants that bad. So do you but the TWU peeps are burning daylight and cash by having the worst contract in the industry.


Why should LAA get my holidays, double time and vacation which is an increase but LAA wants to screw all the LUS with much higher healthcare costs and worse coverage? How is that being a good union and brother and sister? Get Real!

Sorry but I don't think LUS is interested in decreasing our buying power and reducing total compensation while LAA want to gain the LUS vacation, double time and holidays, which increases their compensation

And although the IAM pension has issues, the TWU also gave the IAM its word that it would prioritize the IAMNPF

Item 2: Screw Management. This is the biggest airline in the world and management is being less than unfair. The Union should look into a legal corporate campaign and hit back, much like the stews did. We are the biggest union on the property and need to consider all legal options.

Item 3: Solidarity. Whatever the contention is above, we all have to stick together. Yes, it is disappointing that the IAM hasn't offered a letter, but I have a hunch that the TWU doesn't want to bother doubling down on better health care for its members by supporting ours. Dunno but I haven't heard any TWU negotiator mention how cruddy their insurance is. That begs the question, why?

Uh Tim, Gary Petersen did mention the Medical disparity remember. He stated the 7% to 21% cost difference that "Something needed to be done with"

But anyway I'm very happy to see you shine out your true colors. Quite refreshing. The real you. YOUR Medical is literally built off the backs of your Part Time Brothers and Sisters. Without those people suffering you would be paying more.

You're really not a Unionist or for the worker. You're just a greedy little Devil. You're NOT uncomfortable at all standing on the backs of others to get yours.

And what does this mean?

"""""""And although the IAM pension has issues, the TWU also gave the IAM its word that it would prioritize the IAMNPF"""""""

Why did you mention this? What do you know Tim? Spill the beans. What did the Company offer on the IAMPF?