JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Traymark]

WeAAs , you make a valid point about the part timers subsidizing the full timers, truth.
Edit to add: I see you acknowledge that fact, good on you Tim.

Tim, I also see you starting to see the light, but first, why should you have to give up your nearly free health insurance?
Every other AA employee is on LAA health insurance, it makes sense to have everyone on the same insurance and they are not going to change everyone else, that number is far too large to change.
The LUS folks still left to negotiate is a much smaller number to change, again, intellectual honesty is needed here, it will change to LAA insurance.

Lets examine some real actual numbers instead of hyperbole.
Tim ,you say for you and kids, you pay $26 per check , $450 deduct, $3K OOP
For me and my kids on LAA, I pay $77 per check, $850 deduct, $2K OOP
If we both used all of our deductible and OOP for the year the ~difference~ is $274 per year.
Tim, this is apples to apples comparison, LUS v LAA with very similar plans covering same amount of people.
So I ask you:
Is $22.83 per month worth the stink your making it out to be?

These differences will be subjective to the many different scenarios of demographics, but mine and your demographic are very similar and it's a valid comparison.

I think we both know the insurance will be the LAA.
Ok, so what is the chip to do that?
Well, most of it was the $11 per hr raise, sorry, but it's true.
There should be a little something more and a healthy 401K Contribution is great place to go, it helps everyone equally.

The health insurance is not going to keep a TA from passing, for sure on the M&R contract, and probably the Fleet as well.
Sito will sell the Health insurance to the company because he has to reciprocate something to them for the very fact that there was no representation vote to let the IAM stay on property.
Sito values staying on the property, as you will see.
That pretty much takes care of the veto power, you got anything else? If not , we're done here.

 

[WeAAsles]

Since the FT vs PT medical costs appear to be an issue here, I'm going to toss in my thoughts on the subject. As far back as I can recall, the PT have paid more for their benefits. This goes back to the pre IAM days as well. I worked PT at another company around 10 years ago, and it was the same there. I've been told that its based on the lesser amount of scheduled hours that they work, just like the pensions, 401k, etc. I recall the last contract payout was based on the same theory. I can't speak for your station, but in mine most of the PT have other jobs, and end up giving away half of their shifts. Why should the FT subsidize medical plan costs for a PT person working 20 hours a week who may have benefits at their real day job? I have to say that just about every PT agent at my location has had numerous chances of going FT, but passed it up. Many choose to stay as senior PT in order to get better days off, and scoop up hours. Please keep in mind that there are many employers that don't even offer medical benefits to PT employees.

Sorry Wings. In the TWU contract for Medical we don't chose to judge our Brothers and Sisters individually on maybe's and possibilities.

They are treated as equals.

 

[WeAAsles]

To be sure, it's not right that part time has to subsidize. I was part time prior to the IAM contract and I didn't pay twice. As far as the pension, I understand the part time hours can't expect full credit, and that is reflected in the IAMNPF plan, i.e., must work a minimum of 1600 hours (33 per week) for full 12 months credit. However, WeAAsle is right in that the part time do subsidize our pension as well because there should be NO difference in the company contribution. Presently the difference is $1.30 or .85. Shouldn't matter but it does. It should be equal. Equal work, equal pay.

And I'm uncomfortable suggesting that part timers are less than full time because they "Have another job". The TWU doesn't do this and neither should we. We have wronged alot with some sad contracts along the way but our part time is treated like Delta's ready reserve, i.e., lesser than full time. Same dues, half health care, half pension. Really? BTW, 40% of us are part time so this is a big league number and they have families and I disagree with your characteristic of them. Maybe in BWI they have multiple jobs but I happen to know tons of part timers in CLT who have more seniority than me and expect the same as full time, even if they chose to be part time.

I understand your point wings but I don't want to give an inch on this one. WeAAsles is right about this one.

There you go Tim. Now you're sounding like a true Unionist.

 

[Traymark]

another thing is that one of the things boggling down talks is the fact that you guys brought clear and present damage from your deeply underfunded pension that management still has to fund. Where do you think they plan on getting the money? So, we have to deal with your pension baggage. Let's be fair.

The reality is that your pension is the 4th most underfunded pension in this country. You don't think that is affecting negotiations? Should we ask management to just terminate your plan? I'll tell you a better idea, how about we all stick together and you support my health care and I'll support your pension from termination. Deal?

Tell you what Tim, please don't lose any sleep over my frozen pension, because I'm not.
Our frozen pensions have zero to do with any LUS employee, I just assume we keep it that way.

Enhance my 401K up to industry leading, next article....

 

[WeAAsles]

point is that the huge American pension obligations means less money to otherwise go around. I'm not complaining but it is in error to say that LUS may be weighing down talks when LAA pensions are a weight as well. Again, no biggie.

But from the view of LUS, my peeps are calling LAA greedy. Greedy because they want LUS to take a huge concession to lose the healthcare, yet they are always bitching about the holidays, vacation and double time. Just looks greedy as hell. Again, this isn't about any previous agreement. The TWU fully agreed to everything everyone has today. And our Healthcare isn't some back scratching sorta thing, i.e., "Ill scratch your back and you can get a stand alone, and you scratch my back and toss your health care away so I can get double time." Really?

Dude, only in the movies. Sorry.

Tim WHERE are you reading or hearing that LAA, TWU WANT LUS IAM to take a concession on Medical.

Give me "ANYONE" who has said that? Who? Where?

You said "WANT"

 

[Albert]

I would venture to guess that the debates that are going on here are similar to what is happening between our negotiators. LAA (NC) would settle for 14-15% and the LUS (NC) will not move. Therefore we have a problem. One question I would have for the US folks, if AA management was offering 10-14% on medical (which I doubt) if that's industry leading, isn't that what Parker promised...

I'd be willing to pay more to keep the insurance I have but I'm single and 58. Weez we spoke on this before what other part time job pays $30 has medical, dental, retirement ,sick days. 5 weeks vacation and is flexible as a mother.....??? Maybe somewhere in the Tech field but not blue collar

 

[Koolcat]

Points to Ponder

Item 1: Why should LUS pay 14% plus the increases in the deductible and out of pocket, yet LAA won't have the increases in cost. So it is a concession to all the IAM workgroups. It's an increase in cost. This has nothing to do with our pay raise. We already paid for the pay raise by coughing up the cross utilization concession which I supported in that scenario. Makes no sense to "Double Down" and 'renegotiate something already negotiated. Stupid. We got the money and the $30.87 was already paid for. Had nothing to do with JCBA or health benefits.

It's a concession and reduction to all of the LUS in dollars. Plain and simple. Sorry but no JCBA until the TWU unifies around the LUS health care for its members. Yes, the IAM should still picket and yes we should still be building solidarity but nothing is going to be gained if the TWU doesn't strongly support our LUS health care. I want a contract ASAP because we need to advance our contract into further cost positive territory. But LUS has more fat than LAA and we can wait it out and not bow down to management if we don't want to. We have no-displacement language and the company wants that bad. So do you but the TWU peeps are burning daylight and cash by having the worst contract in the industry.


Why should LAA get my holidays, double time and vacation which is an increase but LAA wants to screw all the LUS with much higher healthcare costs and worse coverage? How is that being a good union and brother and sister? Get Real!

Sorry but I don't think LUS is interested in decreasing our buying power and reducing total compensation while LAA want to gain the LUS vacation, double time and holidays, which increases their compensation

And although the IAM pension has issues, the TWU also gave the IAM its word that it would prioritize the IAMNPF

Item 2: Screw Management. This is the biggest airline in the world and management is being less than unfair. The Union should look into a legal corporate campaign and hit back, much like the stews did. We are the biggest union on the property and need to consider all legal options.

Item 3: Solidarity. Whatever the contention is above, we all have to stick together. Yes, it is disappointing that the IAM hasn't offered a letter, but I have a hunch that the TWU doesn't want to bother doubling down on better health care for its members by supporting ours. Dunno but I haven't heard any TWU negotiator mention how cruddy their insurance is. That begs the question, why?

With any negotiations a middle ground needs to be reached, putting ones head in the sand will not make this go away or wins one argument

 

[Tim Nelson]

WeAAs , you make a valid point about the part timers subsidizing the full timers, truth.
Edit to add: I see you acknowledge that fact, good on you Tim.

Tim, I also see you starting to see the light, but first, why should you have to give up your nearly free health insurance?
Every other AA employee is on LAA health insurance, it makes sense to have everyone on the same insurance and they are not going to change everyone else, that number is far too large to change.
The LUS folks still left to negotiate is a much smaller number to change, again, intellectual honesty is needed here, it will change to LAA insurance.

Lets examine some real actual numbers instead of hyperbole.
Tim ,you say for you and kids, you pay $26 per check , $450 deduct, $3K OOP
For me and my kids on LAA, I pay $77 per check, $850 deduct, $2K OOP
If we both used all of our deductible and OOP for the year the ~difference~ is $274 per year.
Tim, this is apples to apples comparison, LUS v LAA with very similar plans covering same amount of people.
So I sk you:
Is $22.83 per month worth the stink your making it out to be?

These differences will be subjective to the many different scenarios of demographics, but mine and your demographic are very similar and it's a valid comparison.

I think we both know the insurance will be the LAA.
Ok, so what is the chip to do that?
Well, most of it was the $11 per hr raise, sorry, but it's true.
There should be a little something more and a healthy 401K Contribution is great place to go, it helps everyone equally.

The health insurance is not going to keep a TA from passing, for sure on the M&R contract, and probably the Fleet as well.
Sito will sell the Health insurance to the company because he has to reciprocate something to them for the very fact that there was no representation vote to let the IAM stay on property.
Sito values staying on the property, as you will see.
That pretty much takes care of the veto power, you got anything else? If not , we're done here.

I'm pretty sure Sito will have "Sito Power" and stay on the property and with veto power cuz there won't be any so ridiculous to initiate a card campaign and shelve talks for 2 years only to reopen new talks.
If the difference in health care is only $25 per month then I'm sure the company will just absorb the cost and there won't be any fuss. Issue solved. Toss in more vacation, sick time, holidays pension.....Deal?

I mean, none of us are beggers, the company does have to pay up because it is making billions.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim WHERE are you reading or hearing that LAA, TWU WANT LUS IAM to take a concession on Medical.

Give me "ANYONE" who has said that? Who? Where?

You said "WANT"

Implicitly. It's what I'm not hearing. Read this board and you hear all of the LAA peeps saying that we will have to give up our medical. I haven't heard any TWU leader say otherwise either. Charlie Brown all but admitted this and is just as stumped as I am that the TWU isn't necessarily supporting our medical.

I have inferred based on evidence I have observed. I hope I'm wrong and I admit that I don't have all of the facts, but it means something when Charlie Brown ask the same questions, right?

Something is wrong.

 

[Traymark]

If the difference in health care is only $25 per month then I'm sure the company will just absorb the cost and there won't be any fuss. Issue solved.

Not happening and if you just use some intellectual honesty, you know it as well.
BTW, me believing that will happen, doesn't mean I want it to happen, for the record.
My point is, the health insurance is not and will not hold up a TA.

Scope, now thats another issue...

 

[Tim Nelson]

With any negotiations a middle ground needs to be reached, putting ones head in the sand will not make this go away or wins one argument

The current position of the IAM, assuming it is standing firm on our health care, is consistent with negotiations at this time. Likewise, I'm assuming the company's initial proposal was a complete disaster last week. If WeAAsles is right that they will meet in the middle on health care and also boost vacations, pensions, sick time, holidays, shift differ, scope then the members may be allowed to vote on such a thing.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not happening and if you just use some intellectual honesty, you know it as well.
BTW, me believing that will happen, doesn't mean I want it to happen, for the record.
My point is, the health insurance is not and will not hold up a TA.

Scope, now thats another issue...

If Sito says so. Otherwise, we have a contract that isn't even amendable. The company agreed to give us LUS health care already until 2019 and then section 6.

So the company already refutes your analogy. When the company signed that contract, it built in an assumption that we would have LUS health care until 2025, assuming 5 or 6 years of section 6 talks. If it reverses course, then it owes us big league! This has nothing to do with the LAA. Sorry. We are fine with what we have prior to giving up concessions.

Say hello to the Easter Bunny for me.

 

[Traymark]

I haven't heard any TWU leader say otherwise either. Charlie Brown all but admitted this and is just as stumped as I am that the TWU isn't necessarily supporting our medical.

I'm not a huge TWU fan, but it's obvious to any observer that the health insurance is not a hill worth dying on.

 

[Koolcat]

another thing is that one of the things boggling down talks is the fact that you guys brought clear and present damage from your deeply underfunded pension that management still has to fund. Where do you think they plan on getting the money? So, we have to deal with your pension baggage. Let's be fair.

The reality is that your pension is the 4th most underfunded pension in this country. You don't think that is affecting negotiations? Should we ask management to just terminate your plan? I'll tell you a better idea, how about we all stick together and you support my health care and I'll support your pension from termination. Deal?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-20/here-are-americas-most-underfunded-corporate-pensions

Sounds like your in a panic there , Mr Nelson! Your so called influence will have no affect on our frozen pension and now you want to shift blame? USair has been damage goods for while struggling to stay afloat and Pushed away from United and Delta. As a stand alone your negotiators made no head wind on a contract then with a merger you've gain a lot these few years.

 

[Koolcat]

I'm not a huge TWU fan, but it's obvious to any observer that the health insurance is not a hill worth dying on.

I'm not a fan of the IAM bureaucracy and over bloated salaries.