JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Rogallo]

Not at all Troll. I work for American Airlines and you DO NOT.

Yeah, I brag about that all the time too!! 🙂

 

[737823]

Also Tim:
Did you see AFA-CWA wants to represent Norwegian F/As? After they picketed and unsuccessfully tried lobbying the Obama Whitehouse and DOT that it would be devastating to airline workers and now wants to represent them and collect dues?

http://savvystews.com/2017/03/norwegian-flight-attendants-now-afa-represented/

Josh

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I'm SERIOUSLY happy that you got screwed here at AA man.

This is the real WeAAsles.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is the real WeAAsles.

Just for you because you completely deserve it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Agreed Tim. Have you been following the situation at BA with cabin crew? Sadly this business unionism isn't restricted to the US. UNITE the BA cabin crew union in 2010 agreed with management (as part of a new agreement to end a strike/industrial action) to hire B-Scale "mixed fleet" crew that would work on the same BA certificate aircraft but with much lower pay and no work rules. They're called mixed fleet in that, like it was at AA before, BA has "worldwide" and "European" crews who are on the main scale.

Mixed fleet is striking now and BA has brought in wet leased Qatari aircraft (that would otherwise be idle due to the political affairs there having closed their short haul Middle East operations) from oneworld partner and part owner Qatar Airways.

Amazing that UNITE allowed this to happen and to my knowledge hasn't publicly called on the company to integrate them with worldwide and European crews.

At least APFA has strict language on the foreign nationals and they can only fly from their four bases (BOG, EZE, LIM, SCL) to MIA. All of DFW and JFK to South America is APFA exclusive. At NW and UA pretty their agreements allowed foreign nationals on the entire system and even flew with US based crews.

Josh

Labor unions are dying because of the losers who took over the unions and decided to serve dues over members. Sad.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Also Tim:
Did you see AFA-CWA wants to represent Norwegian F/As? After they picketed and unsuccessfully tried lobbying the Obama Whitehouse and DOT that it would be devastating to airline workers and now wants to represent them and collect dues?

http://savvystews.com/2017/03/norwegian-flight-attendants-now-afa-represented/

Josh

Btw josh,
The pension report suggest that the next cut may be to eliminate all unreduced funding policies. Can you imagine all iam members being forced to work till they are 65? Sorta scraps any ideas of bridging medical.

 

[WeAAsles]

Btw josh,
The pension report suggest that the next cut may be to eliminate all unreduced funding policies. Can you imagine all iam members being forced to work till they are 65? Sorta scraps any ideas of bridging medical.

I doubt that there's any report you have that makes that suggestion there Tim? But if it's what's needed to make it a more secure retirement stool leg, sounds to me like it's a good idea.

 

[737823]

I doubt that there's any report you have that makes that suggestion there Tim? But if it's what's needed to make it a more secure retirement stool leg, sounds to me like it's a good idea.

WeAA you remember the Credit Suisse report Overspeed shared that showed it was underfunded under a fair value standard versus actuarial standards?

http://www.airlineforums.com/attachments/document-957405261-pdf.11200/

Sure the audited ERISA compliant financial statements say it's (barely) in the green, but we are now eight years into a bull market run and the plan has underperformed the market benchmarks in several of years.

Josh

 

[737823]

Btw josh,
The pension report suggest that the next cut may be to eliminate all unreduced funding policies. Can you imagine all iam members being forced to work till they are 65? Sorta scraps any ideas of bridging medical.

Bob has been harping on the fact that the IAMNPF would restrict retirees from working in the industry while the AA pension only restricts from working for AA while drawing the pension:

No to the Alliance!

Top AA executives visit Tulsa base. AA/USAIR Committed to staying in Tulsa.

Josh

 

[737823]

According to the woman I spoke to at the EBSA, which is responsible for enforcing ERISA, if the parties agree the funds can be moved as long as we don't lose any protected benefits. Now this is where it gets interesting, by protected benefits it only means what you would get at 65. Early retirement terms are only protected if you are a qualified retiree, otherwise its a negotiated perk not protected. In other words if you retired prior to 65 and the plan changed hands you are protected, they cant cut your pension if your pension was through a single employer plan like we have at AA, but lets say you are 60 and still working, they change plans, the company decides to close your station, so you decide to retire instead of move or commute, your perks were not protected and you would fall under the new terms, under the AA DB terms you could retire at 60 and lose nothing but under the IAMNPF you would lose 22.5% of your pension, if this happened and you were just 55 years of age you would lose 45% of your pension and not be allowed to work in the industry.

With the mentality of the current management team and their expressed willingness to totally disrupt lives this should be a major concern to all, even those in class I stations and Tulsa. Lets look at Tulsa, lets say they did decide to close it or severely downsize it and you are around the average age of 55, you have 30 years with the company and your job was eliminated at Tulsa (Thats if you are an A&P, other workers are totally screwed.) . Your choice is New York or LAX, you hear that Spirit has decided to expand in Tulsa now that the AA facilities, owned by the City of Tulsa, has become available. So your choice is keep your pay and either move or commute to NY or LAX, both commutes require 4 flights round trip, or stay in Tulsa, retire from AA and work for less at Spirit. Under our current deal your take home pay between the pension and Spirit would probably be around the same as you are making at AA, if you went to NEW York or LAX you would have to deal with the high costs associated with living in those places, however if we are put into the IAMNPF you cant work at Spirit and if you did you would lose your pension income till you reach 65.

The IAMNPF is all about eliminating choice, it eliminates your ability to collect what you earned and try other things if circumstances change. Choice is power and the IAMNPF is all about making us powerless and dependent on both the company and the IAM. Perfect example is how this whole Association, the pension agreement and other deals they put in place were all done in secret and without any membership or elected representatives input.

Josh

 

[737823]

I do.

And the PBGC backs my employer plan where if AA went BK again and dumped it I fall way below the max so I will get 100%.

And I want my AA pension to remain where it is. If I'd had a 401K like WN, and a paycheck like WN I'd have over $1million by the time I'm 65, instead I'll have less than half that in a 401k and only around $20k/year from my AA plan, I don't want to see that go to even less in my 401K and $12/yr from the IAMNPF so I want no part of the IAMNPF or any other multi-employer plan.

At AA the pension was used to leverage down wages, at US it was used to leverage down wages and keep workers in the IAM even as they delivered a bottom of the industry wage with a carrier that was reporting Billion Dollar profits on a quarterly basis. I don't want my money going to the IAM even if they promise they can do better with it, because we end up getting less in the here and now. It used to be the employers who promised pie in the sky, now its Unions like the IAM. No thanks, I'll pass.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

WeAA you remember the Credit Suisse report Overspeed shared that showed it was underfunded under a fair value standard versus actuarial standards?

http://www.airlineforums.com/attachments/document-957405261-pdf.11200/

Sure the audited ERISA compliant financial statements say it's (barely) in the green, but we are now eight years into a bull market run and the plan has underperformed the market benchmarks in several of years.

Josh

Even before the financial meltdown, the plan has failed, even with brutal cuts. Its a frankenstein monster that has now had a negative net cash flow every year over the past 11 years, averaging $170 million loss per year or a whopping 1.5% of the current Market Value Assetts.

Josh, this information is only on special reports that key people have provided me. He he. WeAAsles is just my antagonist and takes the official nelson party of no. To his credit, he does step up and admit when my info is correct. He still doesnt understand that i cant provide my special key sources that supply me "Top" information. Not even the agcs know squat cuz they dont even have such informational access. But what i said is 100% accurate and known but not revealed until it becomes official. Believe me. Not even 99%....its 100%. Deep throat is a very kind person who will never be suspected.

 

[737823]

A lot more than if he didn't put anything and gave over $100k to the company by not getting the match.


I didn't say that they should only put in enough to get the match, thats the bare minimum because otherwise not only arent they saving for retirement, they are giving money back to the company.



And a 401K match is in no way comparable to a 401K contribution. Unfortunately Little and Videtich were able to get our peers to buy into it despite the fact that both the Flight Attendants (9%) and Pilots (16%) got contributions. If we were to successfully fight for a 16% Contribution and then match that we would end up just as well off as we would be under the pension. So thats what we should shoot for, a rate thats equitable to what the pilots get. Thats only fair, its not like our pensions would be as good as theirs because we make much much less, but we should have the same percentage contribution.

Unfortunately the Association has other plans for us, the IAMNPF , make us slaves like the old men we see at US tied to a Union run plan, run by a Union we don't belong to, that sets up so many restrictions that we are stuck here till we die.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh

Bob is correct. Also ill put $100 on the table and gladly take $100 from anyone willing to wager that there wont be an announcement whacking unreduced funding policies within the next 18 months.

 

[robbedagain]

How deep can they cut before its over