JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[CremaDiLimone]

I don't understand why the COSEN policy has to change for VC bidding. Your statement makes it sound like only AA has to change. Why can't LAA Legacy Employees be grandfathered in with COSEN for VC purposes only? Doing it that way is in accordance with our current CBA yes?

well, that's the best that those of us with some company time can hope for.

those laa that argue against this aren't arguing the issue, they are happy that someone they have worked with for 30 years won't pass them up on the seniority list...though the guy that spun psa propellers prior to take-off, will get choice shifts/days off. they don't care about that guy.

BS.

 

[AANOTOK]

I don't give a crap if a fueler pumped gas into airplanes since 1980. I don't care if a caterer filled planes with sandwiches and snacks since '81. And I could care less if a building cleaner kept the terminal looking spic and span since '83. If they started slinging bags (started a different occupation) after I did, then they do, and rightfully so bid their hours, shift and days off after me. Vacation is theirs, they have the company (not occupational) date that says so.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

and the guy that did catering for piedmont? psa?? you don't give a crap as long as a laa fsc doesn't pass you up..while others from lus iam are doing exactly that.

 

[wings396]

On the LUS side, none of the jobs listed above were outside of the FSA classification. The only people who lost time were those who came or went to reservations, mtc, or into management. Fueling was only done in a select few former PI stations, and hasn't been done for well over 25 years. Back when we had cleaners for the AC, they were classified as Utility, and were part of the MTC dept.

 

[swamt]

While it's a negotiated item, there are LAA Clerks who fear they are about to lose their company seniority.
In other words, some started out in catering, building cleaning or went into maintenance and came back.
They may have '94 seniority for VC bidding purposes but 1998 seniority for occupational bidding. The talk is they will now be straight 1998 seniority with the new merged airline.

Ahhh. The rumors keep going. If that happens then it sounds as if they went the IAM way, is that correct? This will not be good if they bring that to the mechanics ranks too. I thought they would have went the TWU way of doing the seniority issue.

 

[pjirish317]

Ahhh. The rumors keep going. If that happens then it sounds as if they went the IAM way, is that correct? This will not be good if they bring that to the mechanics ranks too. I thought they would have went the TWU way of doing the seniority issue.

I know you wanted to staple EACH AND EVERY AirTran mechanic below all the SW mechanics, so you have no reason to interject here. The Seniority list was settled by an Arbitrator, not the Association. I have a 1989 hire date and a 1993 Classification date for bidding shifts/days off. My seniority didn't change. The Arbitrator went by the lists he was given by the COMPANY, not the UNIONS. He put the final list together using those. Nobody lost any time. Everybody kept what they had prior to the merger. The lists are just intergrated now. What is the problem with that? Oh and BTW, what it the TWU way of doing seniority swamt?

 

[robbedagain]

when the Javitts list came out last week a few of our folks are very unhappy with at least one sending a protest letter I know of at least 2 agents (1 FT and 1 FT who dropped to PT) who were hired before another FT yet by classification the latter FT bids ahead of the other FT and used to the 2nd FT who dropped to PT Just how many people system wide could get hosed on something like this? why couldn't he just simply say DOH to go by for the seniority list?

 

[swamt]

I know you wanted to staple EACH AND EVERY AirTran mechanic below all the SW mechanics, so you have no reason to interject here. The Seniority list was settled by an Arbitrator, not the Association. I have a 1989 hire date and a 1993 Classification date for bidding shifts/days off. My seniority didn't change. The Arbitrator went by the lists he was given by the COMPANY, not the UNIONS. He put the final list together using those. Nobody lost any time. Everybody kept what they had prior to the merger. The lists are just intergrated now. What is the problem with that? Oh and BTW, what it the TWU way of doing seniority swamt?

Actually I think you misread my post. The seniority integration of mechanics is as expected. The part about CC's and inspectors will be worked out how? As LAA uses DOH seniority for CC's and inspectors and LUS uses Category seniority. My post (although my fault) was about the CC's and inspectors seniority as the two airlines or unions use 2 totally different methods for other category's of work. To my knowledge the way they are going to do the CC's and inspectors has not yet been released to the members. But I think which ever way they decide to go, I have said they need to do something along the lines of grandfathered in seniority for existing CC's and insp's. But there are people out here reporting that they are hearing they will go the LUS way of integrating the CC's and inspectors. By them not announcing what the final ruling was by the arbitrator, hence we have all the rumors starting.
Not condoning what we did with the AT guys. However, our Seniority Integration Committee that was voted in place had a few lower seniority guys working on it. Hence the 4 years added. Also at that time we had a lot more newer guys that just started so the 4 years added flew through a vote by the membership. All of the higher seniority guys that were not affected by any AT guy voted in support of the lower seniority guys already at SWA. Not saying it's fair or not fair. AT guys just wanted on the seniority list ASAP for the perks that would greatly enhance their QOL being in our list and that is why they voted for the added seniority at 85%.

 

[NYer]

I don't understand why the COSEN policy has to change for VC bidding. Your statement makes it sound like only AA has to change. Why can't LAA Legacy Employees be grandfathered in with COSEN for VC purposes only? Doing it that way is in accordance with our current CBA yes?

Seniority Integration isn't about Company Seniority. It is about Occupational Seniority.

Vacation bidding will be covered by the JCBA, not Javits.

 

[NYer]

i didn't move my office from ny to dc while working at the top level of the twu. you're asking me? the twu will tell you that they look out for us..an injustice to one is an injustice to all...etc. this is their duty and obligation. they are in the know, i'm not. by the time i found all this out...it was too late, the association was already formed. i'm just a fsc, how can i know what they are doing at the highest level??

for me personally...i would have told the iam that we will form an association once you agree that all employees from both airlines use a date of hire/company time at laa. let's hammer this out, then have a seniority arbitrator OK it, and then it would go into effect once a contract is ratified. let's see..we may have some precedence with the ticket agents...laa ticket agents did not have a union until the cwa won. can you tell me what happened with the ticket agents? did the opposite happen there? i don't know.

i'll be GD'ed if i'm a top level twu exec. and i am ok with lus employees using methods of acquiring seniority in ways my twu flock could not....with the consequence of all laa guys falling behind some lus guys. BS.

it's an issue of fairness. it's also an issue of either the twu being asleep at the wheel or outrageously complacent.

We use Occupational Seniority for most things, like bidding. Changing that to Company Seniority would juggle our current lists. It would be a bigger injustice among ourselves than what you perceive from the IAM.

 

[NYer]

and the guy that did catering for piedmont? psa?? you don't give a crap as long as a laa fsc doesn't pass you up..while others from lus iam are doing exactly that.

You're worried about the PSA guy, but they're could be a bigger movement within the TWU if you suddenly exchanged Occupation Seniority with Company seniority, as you suggest.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I know you wanted to staple EACH AND EVERY AirTran mechanic below all the SW mechanics, so you have no reason to interject here. The Seniority list was settled by an Arbitrator, not the Association. I have a 1989 hire date and a 1993 Classification date for bidding shifts/days off. My seniority didn't change. The Arbitrator went by the lists he was given by the COMPANY, not the UNIONS. He put the final list together using those. Nobody lost any time. Everybody kept what they had prior to the merger. The lists are just intergrated now. What is the problem with that? Oh and BTW, what it the TWU way of doing seniority swamt?

The twu wanted to staple the iam airtran rampers to the bottom as well. I dont blame a union for representing their own. I expect it and hope our guys represent us and our health care.
As far as javits, he didnt have the authority or power to settle. It wasnt arbitration nor was he arbitrating. He was simply hired since he had experience with the issues. The association took his recommendation. Regardless, the outcome was expected since our union leaders have consistently decided not to recognize doh into the craft.

 

[pjirish317]

The twu wanted to staple the iam airtran rampers to the bottom as well. I dont blame a union for representing their own. I expect it and hope our guys represent us and our health care.
As far as javits, he didnt have the authority or power to settle. It wasnt arbitration nor was he arbitrating. He was simply hired since he had experience with the issues. The association took his recommendation. Regardless, the outcome was expected since our union leaders have consistently decided not to recognize doh into the craft.

Holy Crap! Call Guiness Tim. I actually agree with you here. The IAM agreed with the Company to this P.O.S. classification seniority when we voted them in. Why they did that I have no clue. D.O.H. should have been set as the way to go going forward. Our best chance of changing to D.O.H. was with the AW merger. But Canoli held onto the merged list until after the time alotted to dispute it.

 

[pjirish317]

i didn't move my office from ny to dc while working at the top level of the twu. you're asking me? the twu will tell you that they look out for us..an injustice to one is an injustice to all...etc. this is their duty and obligation. they are in the know, i'm not. by the time i found all this out...it was too late, the association was already formed. i'm just a fsc, how can i know what they are doing at the highest level??

for me personally...i would have told the iam that we will form an association once you agree that all employees from both airlines use a date of hire/company time at laa. let's hammer this out, then have a seniority arbitrator OK it, and then it would go into effect once a contract is ratified. let's see..we may have some precedence with the ticket agents...laa ticket agents did not have a union until the cwa won. can you tell me what happened with the ticket agents? did the opposite happen there? i don't know.

i'll be GD'ed if i'm a top level twu exec. and i am ok with lus employees using methods of acquiring seniority in ways my twu flock could not....with the consequence of all laa guys falling behind some lus guys. BS.

it's an issue of fairness. it's also an issue of either the twu being asleep at the wheel or outrageously complacent.

Just so you are totally informed. The LUS folks have 2 dates. One is your Date of Hire, the other, used for vacation/shift bidding is classification seniority. Anybody hired prior to 1997 has Classification seniority. Anybody hired after 1997 has D.O.H. As well do the AW employees, they have D.O.H. I am a firm believer in D.O.H. into the class/craft. So I actually agree with AANOTOK here. Your date for vacation/shift bid should be when you started working as a FSC.

 

[pjirish317]

Seniority Integration isn't about Company Seniority. It is about Occupational Seniority.

Vacation bidding will be covered by the JCBA, not Javits.

I hope it is spelled out. I know at LUS we bid Vacation by our Classification date not our D.O.H. Same as a shift bid.