JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

Thx for the clarification. This is what I was trying to explain to NYer. So classification seniority will still have to be negotiated? Wasn't it the classification seniority that Javits was brought in to decide? Because of the 2 different ways the two airline did classification seniority? Last question, will the classification seniority still need to be negotiated, or, the decision released from Javits? Big difference in the two because if it still needs to be negotiated then I foresee longer delays ahead.

What do you mean "will the classification seniority still need to be negotiated?"

 

[Filter]

On the fleet side both unions agreed on the sorting and tie breakers...all Javits did was to combine the lists...on the MX side there were many issues the neutral was going to have to make the decision on...among them, CC seniority and actual lists that included both T1 and T2...and T5 for that matter...the only thing that was agreed on with the MX seniority was that DOH would be used as a tie breaker because the TWU company seniority could change and the IAM DOH could not...

 

[bob@las-AA]

Javits makes no contractual decision. Simply, Javits used the current seniority to create a Master Seniority List.

How bidding evolves is a matter of the JCBA negotiations.

It seems many people believe Javits is changing things, which he isn't. He just blended two lists into one. Everyone continues to carry the seniority they currently hold in all their current categories. (Occupational, Classification, Pay, Date of Hire, ect., remains the same and continue to exist unless modified via the JCBA)

How and which seniority is used for bidding, vacations and transfers will be up to the Negotiating Committee. Not Javits.

Biding for vacation,shifts, and transfers is not the job of Javits, but no one has noticed that as far as seniority goes, javits only gave us one column to work with. Kinda looks like the seniority is all figured out for everybody.

 

[NYer]

Biding for vacation,shifts, and transfers is not the job of Javits, but no one has noticed that as far as seniority goes, javits only gave us one column to work with. Kinda looks like the seniority is all figured out for everybody.

Javits was just tasked to create an integrated seniority. He's done that.

That was his only task. We dovetailed our seniority list via the LAA Occupational Seniority and the LUS Classification Seniority.

Everything else is decided by the JCBA and that is when our Company, Pay or DOH seniorities may be used.

 

[Koolcat]

First thing first ! Let's get through these negotiations before we get our panties in a knot about seniority integration and vacations!

 

[swamt]

All he was asked to do was compile a combined seniority list of both carriers. The list will be used once a JCBA is reached. But HOW classification seniority will be made still has to be negotiated.

What do you mean "will the classification seniority still need to be negotiated?"

If you read MM's last sentence he says the " HOW the classification seniority will be made still has to be negotiated."
To me, that says what I have been trying to get clarified, and that the membership has no idea YET how it will be worked out as the asso. has not released the final decision as of yet. The classification seniority is where they will have to merge the LAA and LUS CC's and inspectors (and others but using these two groups as examples) So the LAA CC's/insp. use DOH seniority even when bidding into a CC/insp position from mechanics. Over at LUS they use category or classification seniority, where a 10 year mechanic starts over with day one seniority when he bids from mechanic to CC/insp position. Therefore he has category/classification seniority of day one once he enters his new category/classification of CC/insp. The LAA mechanic has DOH seniority following him into his new category/classification of CC/insp. Which is exactly how it is done here, you never lose any seniority, your seniority follows you everywhere you go unless you leave the co. or go into management positions. Now here lies the question when merging two cc's from the 2 different ways the unions were using prior to merger.
Examples: 20 year mechanic and CC at LAA. 30 year mechanic with 10 years as CC at LUS.
Just using these two gentlemen, who falls above or below whom on the new combined seniority list after the merger? This is a legit question that I'm so sure can be answered yet, but I would be courious of all the different answers that might come. Pls all that want give your opinions of how these two will fall on the new list. Unless you don't know yet because the final decision on this issue has not been released yet.

 

[swamt]

First thing first ! Let's get through these negotiations before we get our panties in a knot about seniority integration and vacations!

The asso is the reason all these rumors are starting about seniority integration because they leave the membership in the dark so much. But it is good to discuss these so when the asso finally does release all the changes upon the membership at once it will be overwhelming and hopefully less confusion later.

 

[bob@las-AA]

If you read MM's last sentence he says the " HOW the classification seniority will be made still has to be negotiated."
To me, that says what I have been trying to get clarified, and that the membership has no idea YET how it will be worked out as the asso. has not released the final decision as of yet. The classification seniority is where they will have to merge the LAA and LUS CC's and inspectors (and others but using these two groups as examples) So the LAA CC's/insp. use DOH seniority even when bidding into a CC/insp position from mechanics. Over at LUS they use category or classification seniority, where a 10 year mechanic starts over with day one seniority when he bids from mechanic to CC/insp position. Therefore he has category/classification seniority of day one once he enters his new category/classification of CC/insp. The LAA mechanic has DOH seniority following him into his new category/classification of CC/insp. Which is exactly how it is done here, you never lose any seniority, your seniority follows you everywhere you go unless you leave the co. or go into management positions. Now here lies the question when merging two cc's from the 2 different ways the unions were using prior to merger.
Examples: 20 year mechanic and CC at LAA. 30 year mechanic with 10 years as CC at LUS.
Just using these two gentlemen, who falls above or below whom on the new combined seniority list after the merger? This is a legit question that I'm so sure can be answered yet, but I would be courious of all the different answers that might come. Pls all that want give your opinions of how these two will fall on the new list. Unless you don't know yet because the final decision on this issue has not been released yet.

This post should be dumped to the MX thread.

 

[NYer]

The asso is the reason all these rumors are starting about seniority integration because they leave the membership in the dark so much. But it is good to discuss these so when the asso finally does release all the changes upon the membership at once it will be overwhelming and hopefully less confusion later.

Agreed

 

[NYer]

If you read MM's last sentence he says the " HOW the classification seniority will be made still has to be negotiated."
To me, that says what I have been trying to get clarified, and that the membership has no idea YET how it will be worked out as the asso. has not released the final decision as of yet. The classification seniority is where they will have to merge the LAA and LUS CC's and inspectors (and others but using these two groups as examples) So the LAA CC's/insp. use DOH seniority even when bidding into a CC/insp position from mechanics. Over at LUS they use category or classification seniority, where a 10 year mechanic starts over with day one seniority when he bids from mechanic to CC/insp position. Therefore he has category/classification seniority of day one once he enters his new category/classification of CC/insp. The LAA mechanic has DOH seniority following him into his new category/classification of CC/insp. Which is exactly how it is done here, you never lose any seniority, your seniority follows you everywhere you go unless you leave the co. or go into management positions. Now here lies the question when merging two cc's from the 2 different ways the unions were using prior to merger.
Examples: 20 year mechanic and CC at LAA. 30 year mechanic with 10 years as CC at LUS.
Just using these two gentlemen, who falls above or below whom on the new combined seniority list after the merger? This is a legit question that I'm so sure can be answered yet, but I would be courious of all the different answers that might come. Pls all that want give your opinions of how these two will fall on the new list. Unless you don't know yet because the final decision on this issue has not been released yet.

Javits on MX Lead/CC integration

 

[swamt]

This post should be dumped to the MX thread.

Negative. This very well may affect all union personnel once the merger is complete and the final ruling is released. It may hit your CC's (leads) and maybe some other titles as well.

 

[NYer]

Negative. This very well may affect all union personnel once the merger is complete and the final ruling is released. It may hit your CC's (leads) and maybe some other titles as well.

This particular issue doesn't affect Fleet.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Negative. This very well may affect all union personnel once the merger is complete and the final ruling is released. It may hit your CC's (leads) and maybe some other titles as well.

Personally couldn't care less what happens to CCs or the titles, and you talk as if this is happening to you, really?!?!

 

[robbedagain]

actually bob I enjoy reading swamt posts he is with SWA and theyre mirrored in contract talks they could very well end up similarly to what we may get

 

[swamt]

This particular issue doesn't affect Fleet.

Does Fleet have CC's or Leads? Or whatever they may call the positions. If they do which I know they do in some form or fashion, and the 2 different sides have different methods of using seniority once entering the new classification as the mechanics do, then yes it will affect Fleet the exact same way it does the mechanics.