JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[cltrat]

so bob you're saying on the LUS side ,we should not only be willing to pay more for insurance but more for a much lessor product?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You and I have discussed this before many times if you remember. Sure I can agree 100% that going to school to gain a marketable trade is a smart move but not everyone "will" do that or "wants" to do that. And if you think about it what would happen if every low skilled, well paid worker actually did what you suggested? The market for many jobs would become oversaturated in time and natural supply and demand would bring down the wages in those fields. Ironic that you would eventually run into a situation where the unskilled trades would have to compensate more to prevent costly turnover. Even Parker himself said in the first MIA roadshow to an older gentleman that we pay you more and should for your experience.

You neglected to say what position in the company the older gentleman held. Even then management has been guilty of some rather hollow words over the years. Tell me how decades of experience serve a FSC better than a FSC who started 2 years ago.

And before you think I am trying to marginalize FS or I am stating a FSC does not earn their money please note that is not what I am saying at all. If you will remember I have stated very clearly I am against the current Association pay scale. I think your average clerk should be brought in much closer to top out.

There are a lot of unskilled professions where they're on the job learned. Factories, warehouses, oil fields, security, doormen, elevator operators, Police and Firemen just to name a few off the top of my head. All of those jobs are honorable learned trades. What would happen do you think if all of those jobs were entry level jobs that you should abandon over time? Should Flight Attendants all move on at say 25?

My father worked in a factory his whole life. However he hired in stacking bottles and left a furnace control operator. Point is he did not hire in and do the same job for his whole career. The truth is most likely you will be doing the same job going out as you did coming in WeAAsles. Your analogy from my perspective is flawed. Also, where I live (Tulsa), Police Officers are required to have a bachelor's degree.

https://www.tulsapolice.org/join-tpd/min-requirements.aspx

And I'm not being rude either but I don't think you have much respect for my chosen (stuck, whatever) career? It really is no different than any of those other jobs I mentioned or the job of a guy who lays down tar roads or picks up garbage in a big city. Actually Union wages and contracts probably aren't a bad thing for society. They keep the experience in the job not trap them (Unless they hate the job so much) and it winds up keeping the now skilled in the trades which makes it cheaper for you through their better productivity.

I am sorry you feel that way. My time as a FSC allowed me to make a decent living (toward the end, thanks to the ridiculous pay scale) and allowed me to fund most of my education toward the end. I don't look down on the job I just know what a trap it can be when the ride ends.

Having the company tell you they are going to shut your shop down after a decade of employment and realizing you have no marketable skills to make a living will change your perception I assure you.

I was luckier than most because I had experience in a skilled trade (electrician) and I had most of my schooling done. I could see the writing on the wall and made preparations.

It was sad watching the faces of some of my peers knowing their career was about to sunset and they had little to no options to maintain their living standard (for various reasons). Luckily some of them got transfers to other shops at TULE eventually.

And what would I do? I'd survive and take advantage of whatever opportunity I could if the job simply evaporated into thin air. I admittedly wouldn't be as comfortable I'm sure to start but "I'M" also not trapped by the absolute lure of seeking more and more money and living beyond my means. Money is where I see the REAL trap.

In a way we both agree.

This article is from 2013 but it still has relevancy today especially if oil prices remain stable between $50 and $60 a barrel. Many non skilled jobs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aol.com/amp/2013/04/25/boomtown-oil-jobs/

Your link is broken.

 

[Koolcat]

You neglected to say what position in the company the older gentleman held. Even then management has been guilty of some rather hollow words over the years. Tell me how decades of experience serve a FSC better than a FSC who started 2 years ago.

And before you think I am trying to marginalize FS or I am stating a FSC does not earn their money please note that is not what I am saying at all. If you will remember I have stated very clearly I am against the current Association pay scale. I think your average clerk should be brought in much closer to top out.

My father worked in a factory his whole life. However he hired in stacking bottles and left a furnace control operator. Point is he did not hire in and do the same job for his whole career. The truth is most likely you will be doing the same job going out as you did coming in WeAAsles. Your analogy from my perspective is flawed. Also, where I live (Tulsa), Police Officers are required to have a bachelor's degree.

https://www.tulsapolice.org/join-tpd/min-requirements.aspx

I am sorry you feel that way. My time as a FSC allowed me to make a decent living (toward the end, thanks to the ridiculous pay scale) and allowed me to fund most of my education toward the end. I don't look down on the job I just know what a trap it can be when the ride ends.

Having the company tell you they are going to shut your shop down after a decade of employment and realizing you have no marketable skills to make a living will change your perception I assure you.

I was luckier than most because I had experience in a skilled trade (electrician) and I had most of my schooling done. I could see the writing on the wall and made preparations.

It was sad watching the faces of some of my peers knowing their career was about to sunset and they had little to no options to maintain their living standard (for various reasons). Luckily some of them got transfers to other shops at TULE eventually.

In a way we both agree.

Your link is broken.

You continue to babble

 

[Koolcat]

NYer if its what you suspect do u think LUS folks would get a choice w that or the 401K That would be interesting to see if it plays out as you suspect

The whole idea of the Association was to hold on to the IAMPF , so why would they give their own a choice?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You continue to babble

I speak the truth. You just don't like what I have to say.

The whole idea of the Association was to hold on to the IAMPF , so why would they give their own a choice?

I would say that is an accurate analysis.

 

[bob@las-AA]

so bob you're saying on the LUS side ,we should not only be willing to pay more for insurance but more for a much lessor product?

Yes, because that fight is already fought and won by the company. You will be coming over to our insurance when? Late 2017?
Your scope is a automatic, and sorry I don't see the term "Grandfathering" used in the New American Airlines playbook.
My fight is for the 401k, and any raise in match.
Holidays, vacation, and sick time, are not that much of a priority to me as it is to others.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, because that fight is already fought and won by the company. You will be coming over to our insurance when? Late 2017?
Your scope is a automatic, and sorry I don't see the term "Grandfathering" used in the New American Airlines playbook.
My fight is for the 401k, and any raise in match.
Holidays, vacation, and sick time, are not that much of a priority to me as it is to others.

You have ZERO clue what you're talking about here Bob. And when you become a Negotiator and can show us anything in writing that proves your comments, then we'll talk.

 

[robbedagain]

Im not sure scope is automatic. I believe that is one of few areas that our negotiatiors are trying to enhance. In the JCBA talks

 

[bob@las-AA]

You have ZERO clue what you're talking about here Bob. And when you become a Negotiator and can show us anything in writing that proves your comments, then we'll talk.

And you do?

 

[WeAAsles]

And you do?

You and I both DO NOT know as fact what will be in that JCBA TA to vote on until we read it "in writing"

That's the REAL fact Bub/Bob.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Im not sure scope is automatic. I believe that is one of few areas that our negotiatiors are trying to enhance. In the JCBA talks

Enhance your scope, to what! 5 to maybe 3, or even 2 flights a day! You have got to be kidding me!
Weez is, and can be, completely blind to any possibility of thinking outside the box and never thinking with a iota of common sense, history dictates that once something is taken it almost never is given back. And as for you, you know first hand the changes in the small stations. Before LAA's BK, we had as many stations as LUS, ABQ being the smallest with 10 flights daily. If anyone on the LAA, or LUS side can ever give a example of reopening a station once it has been removed because of scope. Just because LUS scope 5 survived 2 BKs does not mean it will survive a third round of cuts. If your scope remains, that would trigger the reopening of all out stations vacated through BK, and that's never going to happen, PERIOD. As it is this place can't keep all 17k + clerks to begin with. So the fight to keep LUS at scope 5 is in my opinion a losing battle, and your energy would best be directed to a better cause. Your pension. Health insurance is also a given don't believe me just hang tight, and if LAA is fortunate enough to get back 10 holidays, those scaly old relics still hanging around would have to give up weekends off to get all of them. Is this a rant, maybe but again, fight for what you know is a easy victory, and live to fight another day.

 

[cltrat]

so what makes you think scope and insurance have been settled ? nothing further could be true.The guy under sito was in our breakroom two days ago and said the biggest issues remaining are insurance, scope and benefits/pension.
He said the IAM wasn't agreeable wih paying more for a lessor plan.

I already know the plan I have is doomed they pretty much told me that already.He mentioned the worse plan we have is better than you guys best ,I don't mind moving some but anything that puts us on your plans is a no vote for me.Maybe you should inspire for better cheaper insurance from a company making billions

 

[bob@las-AA]

You and I both DO NOT know as fact what will be in that JCBA TA to vote on until we read it "in writing"

That's the REAL fact Bub/Bob.

"we don't know as fact the Titanic is sinking until the water is at neck level"

 

[bob@las-AA]

so what makes you think scope and insurance have been settled ? nothing further could be true.The guy under sito was in our breakroom two days ago and said the biggest issues remaining are insurance, scope and benefits/pension.
He said the IAM wasn't agreeable wih paying more for a lessor plan.

I already know the plan I have is doomed they pretty much told me that already.He mentioned the worse plan we have is better than you guys best ,I don't mind moving some but anything that puts us on your plans is a no vote for me.Maybe you should inspire for better cheaper insurance from a company making billions

Nothing would make me happier than everyone enjoying, in both camps, a lower cost for health ins., on that same token, only one plan will survive, how anyone with half a head on their shoulders could think that the company would agree to a plan that is less expensive for the employees, but to a greater expense to the company, this goes against all logic. Do you think the company is going to let that happen, seriously!

 

[AANOTOK]

so what makes you think scope and insurance have been settled ? nothing further could be true.The guy under sito was in our breakroom two days ago and said the biggest issues remaining are insurance, scope and benefits/pension.
He said the IAM wasn't agreeable wih paying more for a lessor plan.

I already know the plan I have is doomed they pretty much told me that already.He mentioned the worse plan we have is better than you guys best ,I don't mind moving some but anything that puts us on your plans is a no vote for me.Maybe you should inspire for better cheaper insurance from a company making billions

cltrat,
No disrespect, but IMO the only way you won't be paying what we do here at AA (or close to it) is by the IAM reps refusing to sign off on a T/A. If the Association could agree on this (and I have my doubts), the Clerks of AA would overwhelmingly pass it if other areas were satisfying to the TWU membership. With that vote and you guys outnumbered, you would unfortunately be stuck with that part of the garbage we now hold.
Again rat, not being confrontational, just my opinion on how things could possibly play out.