JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

My problem is I'll be going to rotating after almost 39 years with a set shift. I'm older but I don't know how you set up child care a second job or even coaching a baseball team with rotating days off. With LAA fleet it is only in JFK and LGA and not all jobs rotate which in my opinion makes it even more screwy

Al you're starting to sound Creamy now. Do I have to give you the "Dude"?

They were rotating 21 years ago when I walked in the door and they'll still be rotating 21 years from now when I'm staring at Deaths door.

Your point Sir is moot.

 

[WeAAsles]

I didn't know you guys had RDO's.
I thought that was a UA thing.......

Anyway, something like RDO's should be voted on by the members system wide. We have them in predominately sUA hubs and stations, but not my hub or IAH. To some of us, it seems problematic, but I think it should be an option on the bid line system wide. Start it on the Relief Lines first, and see what happens. People may like them. IMHO, it can't be all that bad in a line station where there are limited options (ie major seniority). But in a hub, it it much different if it hasn't been done before. Of course, hub life is different from working a line station, and it has it's own issues. And one of the major ones is finding a good bid line; work area; and the days you want off.

Only at JFK and LGA. They've been doing it since man first invented the wheel.

They were rotating even before the Wright Brothers were out of diapers.

Al is fighting against a stream that has no water flopping around on the rocks.

 

[robbedagain]

bob we handle Air Willy, Piedmont, Envoy, and Republic for the express carriers in addition to mainline LAA and LUS The morning shift they often repo 2 sometimes 3 jets depending on the time of the year and flight schedule On the flip side of things us folks on the afternoon and nights get royally screwed because just about anything that can happen will happen at some point or another I can honestly tell you Bob that working short staffed on pm shift is mighty old and I'm bringing it up with union rep this week we get multiple flights on the deck and for example tonite we had 2 CLT 1 DFW 1 MIA plus JFK on the ground at the same time not to mention for the first RON came in a whopping 30 min early took almost 35 min to off load due to the crew for that was on the MIA trip The crew off loading DFW cld not reload it right away with 1 in the bin and 1 down below while the third guy runs the bags to claim Bob this is the type of thing we deal with daily in our station Its far easy for you to say what you say due to the fact your in a hub and thus far more people In the last year or so weve lost more people than you will know and not a single one has been replaced we keep getting shorter and shorter by the month it seems and on days like today and yesterday with frigid temps our belt loaders are dying by the 3s and our GSE is having hard times keeping up I hope youre beginning to see the picture here but this is reality of what we in smaller stations do and put up with

 

[WeAAsles]

bob we handle Air Willy, Piedmont, Envoy, and Republic for the express carriers in addition to mainline LAA and LUS The morning shift they often repo 2 sometimes 3 jets depending on the time of the year and flight schedule On the flip side of things us folks on the afternoon and nights get royally screwed because just about anything that can happen will happen at some point or another I can honestly tell you Bob that working short staffed on pm shift is mighty old and I'm bringing it up with union rep this week we get multiple flights on the deck and for example tonite we had 2 CLT 1 DFW 1 MIA plus JFK on the ground at the same time not to mention for the first RON came in a whopping 30 min early took almost 35 min to off load due to the crew for that was on the MIA trip The crew off loading DFW cld not reload it right away with 1 in the bin and 1 down below while the third guy runs the bags to claim Bob this is the type of thing we deal with daily in our station Its far easy for you to say what you say due to the fact your in a hub and thus far more people In the last year or so weve lost more people than you will know and not a single one has been replaced we keep getting shorter and shorter by the month it seems and on days like today and yesterday with frigid temps our belt loaders are dying by the 3s and our GSE is having hard times keeping up I hope youre beginning to see the picture here but this is reality of what we in smaller stations do and put up with

What's that I see on the floor? The clipped wings of that Robin is what it looks like if I'm correct.

Ouch Robbed, Ouch.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

bob we handle Air Willy, Piedmont, Envoy, and Republic for the express carriers in addition to mainline LAA and LUS The morning shift they often repo 2 sometimes 3 jets depending on the time of the year and flight schedule On the flip side of things us folks on the afternoon and nights get royally screwed because just about anything that can happen will happen at some point or another I can honestly tell you Bob that working short staffed on pm shift is mighty old and I'm bringing it up with union rep this week we get multiple flights on the deck and for example tonite we had 2 CLT 1 DFW 1 MIA plus JFK on the ground at the same time not to mention for the first RON came in a whopping 30 min early took almost 35 min to off load due to the crew for that was on the MIA trip The crew off loading DFW cld not reload it right away with 1 in the bin and 1 down below while the third guy runs the bags to claim Bob this is the type of thing we deal with daily in our station Its far easy for you to say what you say due to the fact your in a hub and thus far more people In the last year or so weve lost more people than you will know and not a single one has been replaced we keep getting shorter and shorter by the month it seems and on days like today and yesterday with frigid temps our belt loaders are dying by the 3s and our GSE is having hard times keeping up I hope youre beginning to see the picture here but this is reality of what we in smaller stations do and put up with

If it's like another station I know then you have to clean the planes, as well. Dump the labs, fill the water,... Bob doesn't understand but he has lost all credibility here.

 

[pjirish317]

Your really trying to find my last nerve aren't you. Your E190 according to LAA standards is a regional aircraft, flown by Envoy crew and earning regional carrier wages. If, after this JCBA comes into play, and your E190 still hold the same status as mainline, congratulations. The original intent, of this discussion, was to demonstrate the impact of scope on the entire system. And after further research, with better information, mainly from the DOT (i.e. entire departures for AAL for 2016), the results haven't improved but worsened. Choosing DECS as a baseline was a misstep. You can "promote" togetherness you chose, and govern yourself accordingly. But is was LUS who just after our bankruptcy started hiring off the streets in ALL the citys we had to vacate. I've been told about the animosity with the merger of TWA because they were given 2001 seniority, I remain indifferent, couldn't care less even with this blending of work forces. The divide will happen, not by me promoting it, but by basic human nature, and will remain for a long time. The new list is below.

Bob,

"according to LAA standards"? Really? USAirways is no longer, we are all American employees now. So kindly show me in either the pilots CBA or the LUS CBA, since we are still negotiating for a JCBA, that the E-190 is an Envoy aircraft. FYI though, it's the Piolts Scope in their CBA that governs which aircraft are classified as mainline or not, not our CBA. I am waiting for you to prove to me contractually that they are. Sad thing is, you cant, and you know it. It is, and has always been flown by mainline crewmembers, and always worked by mainline fleet agents. Where you get your self rightousness to just declare that it is an envoy aircraft just boggles the mind. You shoud really do some research before you declare things as fact.

 

[robbedagain]

We don't clean planes anymore as our sta mgr have it to NAS but we do lavs n water. I agree Bob has lost credibility

 

[WeAAsles]

We don't clean planes anymore as our sta mgr have it to NAS but we do lavs n water. I agree Bob has lost credibility

Bob was doing pretty well on Forums IMO for awhile there. Just needs to embrace a little humility on this subject and learn that it's ok not to always be right about everything.

 

[NYer]

I didn't know you guys had RDO's.
I thought that was a UA thing.......

Anyway, something like RDO's should be voted on by the members system wide. We have them in predominately sUA hubs and stations, but not my hub or IAH. To some of us, it seems problematic, but I think it should be an option on the bid line system wide. Start it on the Relief Lines first, and see what happens. People may like them. IMHO, it can't be all that bad in a line station where there are limited options (ie major seniority). But in a hub, it it much different if it hasn't been done before. Of course, hub life is different from working a line station, and it has it's own issues. And one of the major ones is finding a good bid line; work area; and the days you want off.

For the TWU, the only stations that can have RDO are those that were grandfathered with the 2012 CBA. The Company doesn't want them but those stations that had them lobbied to keep them and they gained support from the rest of the system. Don't see that being expanded as it not widely sought after. If the Company continues to want everything consistent then those that have RDO may have themselves another fight on their hands.

 

[WeAAsles]

For the TWU, the only stations that can have RDO are those that were grandfathered with the 2012 CBA. The Company doesn't want them but those stations that had them lobbied to keep them and they gained support from the rest of the system. Don't see that being expanded as it not widely sought after. If the Company continues to want everything consistent then those that have RDO may have themselves another fight on their hands.

I've had conversations about this with friends in NYC and even though this is completely their issue, I've never personally understood why they are so entrenched in keeping their current system myself?

I personally would absolutely hate to see RDO come to MIA and would be firmly in the no camp if it was put to us for a vote.

I can see it creating tons of issues for people to try to schedule activities outside of the company and I also think it negates the very idea of putting in ones time to eventually gain the day's off that the sacrificed years of waiting for finally pays off.

I highly doubt to see RDO expanded out to the rest of the system.

 

[Kev3188]

I can see it creating tons of issues for people to try to schedule activities outside of the company and I also think it negates the very idea of putting in ones time to eventually gain the day's off that the sacrificed years of waiting for finally pays off.

Exactly!

So what's the appeal? Anyone know why they keep it?

 

[NYer]

Exactly!

So what's the appeal? Anyone know why they keep it?

It has appeal. I worked it for several years and didn't mind it at all.

Some people like it because it affords you the opportunity to get weekends. Others like it because you're not stagnant with the same days off. Some people used it to get the holidays off but not be stuck with a Tues/Wed for several months. It is something you get used to and unless you work it, it is difficult to see the advantages.

It is usually a system that is better embraced in a senior station where it could take decades to get weekends or holidays off.

It isn't for everyone, but then again not many things are.

 

[WeAAsles]

Exactly!

So what's the appeal? Anyone know why they keep it?

Kev I think it's just something honestly that they've done for so long that they don't want to change it? It's like their comfortable pair of old shoes.

I've heard that any time a member makes a motion to try to get rid of it the hall is flooded with guys coming in to vote against the change. Of course the guys that flood in are guys who know or think they wouldn't have a chance at those premium days off.

But I guess you can also make the argument that with the CS/Swap Shift language you can pretty much make up your own schedule anyway? But for me if I was under it I wouldn't like the hassle or the headache of having to try and make those modifications.

Again though when I talked to a friend about it I kind of got the feeling of it's our business so stay out of it and unless I planned on transferring back to LGA I can get the drift that it's not my business.

As long as the disease (Sorry friend) doesn't spread I'll respect it remaining under quarantine.

 

[WeAAsles]

It has appeal. I worked it for several years and didn't mind it at all.

Some people like it because it affords you the opportunity to get weekends. Others like it because you're not stagnant with the same days off. Some people used it to get the holidays off but not be stuck with a Tues/Wed for several months. It is something you get used to and unless you work it, it is difficult to see the advantages.

It is usually a system that is better embraced in a senior station where it could take decades to get weekends or holidays off.

It isn't for everyone, but then again not many things are.

When I was under it I found it confusing. If I remember right FT rotates forward and PT rotates backwards? Some shifts don't rotate at all.

From a practical standpoint it was just weird IMO.

If say you are a kid going to school and you rotate off the days you have classes now you have to CS off two days and if you can't get a CS back for the days you didn't need off, now you're without the pay.

Anyway again the entire idea is very anti seniority. What's the point of even having seniority at all under that system?

 

[WeAAsles]

Anyway I'm sure that Al when he pops on and reads will be very happy that we're talking about it but I still just don't see it changing over there even if the company wants uniformity?

And with the other things I mentioned to Al yesterday. It sounds like if it's pushed it's going to be just one more hot mess added in to that already hot mess melting pot they got over there.

I think I've lost count of all the factions they got now?