JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Is that like what we used to call a "short hour" or "quick hour" at NWA?

Exactly.

 

[WeAAsles]

For the benefit of those that aren't familiar with the process, you should to start with the fact that the Company would first need to go to the overtime list and if that doesn't give enough bodies, then they ask for volunteers. After that has been exhausted and if the need persists, then they can hold mandatory.

No such thing as a 2 hour notice on a mandatory OT assignment.

The PH, which was popular would come back if the Company can implement certain guidelines to avoid the issues that made them want to get rid of it. The biggest detriment for us, was the fact that most would take it if it meant a minimal outlay of time. Most wouldn't take if it meant doing an entire flight. On the other hand, they would take it if it was a push which took them more than 15 minutes past their original quit time.

It would be great to get it back, but it won't be as it used to be.

Ok if you go to the language in the UAL agreement Article 4 page 8. The language for Task Completion doesn't place it in the category for normal OT calls and actually excludes it from the rest of the language.

First they have to solicit volunteers (The assumption would be the gate crew first) and from there if they don't get the volunteers they would mandate Task Completion if needed.

No bypass and no charging of OT hours to the members name.

https://iam141.org/united/docs/FinalFLEETSERVICEEMPLOYEES2016-2021Agreement091416.pdf

 

[T5towbar]

Ok if you go to the language in the UAL agreement Article 4 page 8. The language for Task Completion doesn't place it in the category for normal OT calls and actually excludes it from the rest of the language.

First they have to solicit volunteers (The assumption would be the gate crew first) and from there if they don't get the volunteers they would mandate Task Completion if needed.

No bypass and no charging of OT hours to the members name.

https://iam141.org/united/docs/FinalFLEETSERVICEEMPLOYEES2016-2021Agreement091416.pdf

This is not considered as Overtime at all.
This is how things work in my hub:
If it is weather event or IRROPS is going to happen, first management post solicitations for OT (if anyone wants it.) If you do, you can sign up for it on the online kiosk and it will be instantly approved and put in the system. If not enough people sign up for OT and people are needed, then Mandatory Lists will go up for a certain amount of people needed (reverse seniority) usually people that are getting off in the earlier evening hours. There might be a couple of rounds of Mandatory if the operations slide further into the night. You will usually stay for two hours (depending how bad operations are). Also if you get picked for back to back mandatory, you will get paid double time on the second and subsequent days. That's designed not to pick on the same people again and again for mandatory. Back in the old CO days, the zone supervisor could call a blanket mandatory and keep people until their individual gate is finished. Or can call it off if everything is covered, and people can then be released once the operation manages down. The way we presently do it now, if selected, you know you have to stay the time, and now you don't have to chase down a Supervisor for an exception card - it is already now in the system.

TASKCOM is different because this happens during the regular operations because of scheduling, and stuff that goes wrong. This present bid, our work schedules were changed to correspond with the zone supervisors bid. (someone came up with this bright idea........) Anyway, do to the historical differences (legacy UA vs CO), we on the CO side had multiple shift times. Some may agree - some may disagree with this. On the UA side, they had pretty much set shift times and also had Rotating Days Off. This remains in the mostly UA hubs, but EWR and IAH remained the same and we don't have that option of Rotating Days Off. Anyway, this bid was changed to limit the amount of shift times, which a lot of people didn't like, due to the loss of flexibility for FT and PT people. Now as a lot of people exit during the shift, there are gaps in the coverage for Late Ops. So since people are leaving, someone has to help close out the present activity on their individual gate. So if there aren't enough available people, you would stay to complete that task of getting that flight out, or covering that RON coming in 20 minutes before your exit time.

I hope this explains this process.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is not considered as Overtime at all.
This is how things work in my hub:
If it is weather event or IRROPS is going to happen, first management post solicitations for OT (if anyone wants it.) If you do, you can sign up for it on the online kiosk and it will be instantly approved and put in the system. If not enough people sign up for OT and people are needed, then Mandatory Lists will go up for a certain amount of people needed (reverse seniority) usually people that are getting off in the earlier evening hours. There might be a couple of rounds of Mandatory if the operations slide further into the night. You will usually stay for two hours (depending how bad operations are). Also if you get picked for back to back mandatory, you will get paid double time on the second and subsequent days. That's designed not to pick on the same people again and again for mandatory. Back in the old CO days, the zone supervisor could call a blanket mandatory and keep people until their individual gate is finished. Or can call it off if everything is covered, and people can then be released once the operation manages down. The way we presently do it now, if selected, you know you have to stay the time, and now you don't have to chase down a Supervisor for an exception card - it is already now in the system.

TASKCOM is different because this happens during the regular operations because of scheduling, and stuff that goes wrong. This present bid, our work schedules were changed to correspond with the zone supervisors bid. (someone came up with this bright idea........) Anyway, do to the historical differences (legacy UA vs CO), we on the CO side had multiple shift times. Some may agree - some may disagree with this. On the UA side, they had pretty much set shift times and also had Rotating Days Off. This remains in the mostly UA hubs, but EWR and IAH remained the same and we don't have that option of Rotating Days Off. Anyway, this bid was changed to limit the amount of shift times, which a lot of people didn't like, due to the loss of flexibility for FT and PT people. Now as a lot of people exit during the shift, there are gaps in the coverage for Late Ops. So since people are leaving, someone has to help close out the present activity on their individual gate. So if there aren't enough available people, you would stay to complete that task of getting that flight out, or covering that RON coming in 20 minutes before your exit time.

I hope this explains this process.

Thanks again T5. The way our mando works (TWU) if they get to that point and give out say 4 hours holdover even if we have no tasks or are finished early, the company can't force us to go home.

In my career I can't tell you how many times mando has been given where I've sat around and done nothing at all. And I know I'm not revealing any secret here.

If the company wants to continue to give out essentially free money in the future I guess that's their prerogative. But it seems at least to me that your group seems to have come up with a much better solution that gets members money in their pockets and keeps things productive.

But I don't agree without some type of PH or "Task Completion" set up with the idea of individual people being released when on mando. If I got what you said right and the company has that sayso then it creates an unfairness for those who may not have work or a flight scheduled on their gate?

One without the other wouldn't work out too well.

 

[Jester]

Questions for the LAA guys... What's a protected station vs. an unprotected station? I figure it has something to do with the Company's option to close the station and contract it out, but how would a station's status be determined? Number of annual mainline flights? Something contractual irrespective flights? Is there a list of AA stations which are unprotected? And is there some time horizon, period of time, or deadline by which the Company could exercise its options?

 

[ograc]

Questions for the LAA guys... What's a protected station vs. an unprotected station? I figure it has something to do with the Company's option to close the station and contract it out, but how would a station's status be determined? Number of annual mainline flights? Something contractual irrespective flights? Is there a list of AA stations which are unprotected? And is there some time horizon, period of time, or deadline by which the Company could exercise its options?

Thank you Jester for opening the floor, hopefully for meaningful discussion, regarding Scope. I'm certain there are differences between the two existing contracts. What was the formula used at LAA to determine a protected station vs. unprotected as agreed to? The list of protected cities at LAA vs. LUS, based on existing agreements, seems to be stark. HUGE ISSUE going forward. The floor is open for meaningful discussion regarding this issue.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

why in the world would you do that??

Because they have Kaiser.

Rogue…..

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

In my career I can't tell you how many times mando has been given where I've sat around and done nothing at all. And I know I'm not revealing any secret here.

No. You are not.

 

[NYer]

Thank you Jester for opening the floor, hopefully for meaningful discussion, regarding Scope. I'm certain there are differences between the two existing contracts. What was the formula used at LAA to determine a protected station vs. unprotected as agreed to? The list of protected cities at LAA vs. LUS, based on existing agreements, seems to be stark. HUGE ISSUE going forward. The floor is open for meaningful discussion regarding this issue.

"The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures and will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above 7300 annual departures. The Company will also re-staff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 7300 and above annual departures."

Before the BK CBA, it was 2555 annual departures.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Thank you Jester for opening the floor, hopefully for meaningful discussion, regarding Scope. I'm certain there are differences between the two existing contracts. What was the formula used at LAA to determine a protected station vs. unprotected as agreed to? The list of protected cities at LAA vs. LUS, based on existing agreements, seems to be stark. HUGE ISSUE going forward. The floor is open for meaningful discussion regarding this issue.

UA got a contract with scope raised to 35 flights a day, do you know how the members voted it in? They offered $205 for every year of employment to sign. Like I said MONEY trumps all. And I have no doubt a similar raise in scope will happen here, but to the over 20 years crowd, it wont effect them so they will only look for the money, as will I.

Just keeping it real.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I would venture to guess that even someone with 15 years, and that would equate to $3075 would vote yes because of the money, its only human nature, the total members above 15 years for fleet is 7215.

 

[Jester]

Start looking at 35 mainline flights at day outside of a hub and that's pretty much eliminates most stations. Figure how many flights could realistically make a bank in a hub, especially the fewer transcon flights distances, and then the trade off of Express flights covering shorter distances. With LAX, PHX, ORD, DFW, MIA, CLT, PHL, JFK and average 4 daily mainline flights to each hub would be generous to most non-hub stations. Throw-in the shorter distance flights (PHL-BOS, PHX-TUS, etc.) with higher frequencies could be handled by Express. I could only think of a handful of non-hub stations which would be safe: MCO, LAS, IAH, ATL, and even 20 flights a day would be difficult for most.

 

[Albert]

Start looking at 35 mainline flights at day outside of a hub and that's pretty much eliminates most stations. Figure how many flights could realistically make a bank in a hub, especially the fewer transcon flights distances, and then the trade off of Express flights covering shorter distances. With LAX, PHX, ORD, DFW, MIA, CLT, PHL, JFK and average 4 daily mainline flights to each hub would be generous to most non-hub stations. Throw-in the shorter distance flights (PHL-BOS, PHX-TUS, etc.) with higher frequencies could be handled by Express. I could only think of a handful of non-hub stations which would be safe: MCO, LAS, IAH, ATL, and even 20 flights a day would be difficult for most.

They actually run a full 330 BOS/PHL but you are right about the rest. We are not going from 1 flight to 35 scope. Probably around 8 or 10 or so with some grandfathering.

 

[ograc]

They actually run a full 330 BOS/PHL but you are right about the rest. We are not going from 1 flight to 35 scope. Probably around 8 or 10 or so with some grandfathering.

It is my understanding; proposals have not even been exchanged, by either party, regarding this Article and many others. There remains much "unfinished business" regarding a future JCBA. Much more negotiating lies ahead. It is important that we remain on task of obtaining an industry leading JCBA. However long that may take. Much work remains.

 

[AANOTOK]

It is my understanding; proposals have not even been exchanged, by either party, regarding this Article and many others. There remains much "unfinished business" regarding a future JCBA. Much more negotiating lies ahead. It is important that we remain on task of obtaining an industry leading JCBA. However long that may take. Much work remains.

Right now all we can do is sit and watch the snail crawl. Until the two powerhouses of the Ass and it's negotiators can see eye to eye on some of the open articles, then you will not have an industry leading contract. Even AA is somewhat amazed at this dysfunctional sideshow known as the Association.