JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

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Kev3188 said:
You're doing it right now.
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Again you are lying.

As I stated before I am active in very few threads. Anyone on here is free to review my post history.

How many threads do you post in that I have also posted in the last 2 months or so?

I bet you can count the threads on one hand.

I claim you are a liar. You claim I am following you. Prove it.
 
WeAAsles said:
T5 as I read your "Task Completion" language what I took away from it was that either your negotiators made a mistake or the company didn't agree to a piece that concerned me?

You're given one task to complete and the company cannot give you any other tasks. But if that task only takes you 15 minutes of the total time, management can still require you not to leave for one full hour as I read it?

Have they been making you stay the full hour or have they been releasing you after the job is done? And as I also read it, it also looked to me like they can force you to stay for an hour every night if they wanted? Was I correct in how I read it?

The way ours used to work they had to ask you if you wanted a PH and when the task was completed you could go home and be paid a full hour of OT.

Obviously to me what we "used" to have is preferable.
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No.
You are allowed to leave as soon as your task you are presently in is completed, hence the name. EXAMPLE: If you are in the middle of a flight that leaves at 22:30; but the time is now 22:20 and you get off at 22:30, you are required to stay and complete the flight. Once pushed off, then you can leave and get paid the 1 hr after 22:31 even if it takes a minute over your time. The supervisor cannot make you stay for another task. PERIOD. (unless you are dumb enough to volunteer) He/She has to sign your exception card and find someone else to do the next incoming that comes to the gate you are working, or wherever UROC sent you. This is now strictly enforced. Management cannot make anyone stay, unless Mandatory is called (well ahead of time, and lists are posted). The good thing about that is no more exception cards are needed on Mandatory - if you are selected, the computer has already put that in the payroll system.

Since I work late, someone has to close out since RON's come in around my exit time. The supervisor signs my exception card in advance, and I get paid, even if it is one minute over. And if the supervisor ask me to start earlier - before my shift time starts, (ie: someone is missing on the previous shift and a plane has to be brought in) I get paid TASKCOM (1 hour) on the front end of the day as well. So it is possible you can get paid for 10 hours within a 8 hour workday. Once I leave, there is a NightHawk crew to finish off the night and prep the HeadStarts the next morning.
 
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T5towbar said:
No.
You are allowed to leave as soon as your task you are presently in is completed, hence the name. EXAMPLE: If you are in the middle of a flight that leaves at 22:30; but the time is now 22:20 and you get off at 22:30, you are required to stay and complete the flight. Once pushed off, then you can leave and get paid the 1 hr after 22:31 even if it takes a minute over your time. The supervisor cannot make you stay for another task. PERIOD. (unless you are dumb enough to volunteer) He/She has to sign your exception card and find someone else to do the next incoming that comes to the gate you are working, or wherever UROC sent you. This is now strictly enforced. Management cannot make anyone stay, unless Mandatory is called (well ahead of time, and lists are posted). The good thing about that is no more exception cards are needed on Mandatory - if you are selected, the computer has already put that in the payroll system.

Since I work late, someone has to close out since RON's come in around my exit time. The supervisor signs my exception card in advance, and I get paid, even if it is one minute over. And if the supervisor ask me to start earlier - before my shift time starts, (ie: someone is missing on the previous shift and a plane has to be brought in) I get paid TASKCOM (1 hour) on the front end of the day as well. So it is possible you can get paid for 10 hours within a 8 hour workday. Once I leave, there is a NightHawk crew to finish off the night and prep the HeadStarts the next morning.
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This must be the US way, at 22:20 for AA, extras are sent from zone support to finish up and push. But We are first asked if we would like to get OT to complete the flight, your are only paid OT for the time your on the clock, other wise we would file a by-pass, if zone didnt ask us. If it comes in at 22:10 we are asked for a hour of OT, any takers stay the rest chock the tires huck-up air and power and bring up any gate-checkes and let the zone take over
 
bob@las-AA said:
This must be the US way, at 22:20 for AA, extras are sent from zone support to finish up and push. But We are first asked if we would like to get OT to complete the flight, your are only paid OT for the time your on the clock, other wise we would file a by-pass, if zone didnt ask us. If it comes in at 22:10 we are asked for a hour of OT, any takers stay the rest chock the tires huck-up air and power and bring up any gate-checkes and let the zone take over
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T5 works for UAL Bob. When I get a chance I'll elaborate further about the Penalty Hours or as it's called at UAL Task Completion and WHY the company should sign an agreement to bring it back at AA.

Ok. I know you weren't with us back when we had it Bob but I'll use DFW as an example. As I recall you had a ton of 1:00 to 9:30 shifts. Now say you get a minor weather event that closes the ramp for say 30 minutes. That backs up 4 outbounds that won't have coverage and need some scrambling. Maybe you have 20 of those shifts there right now? Management would have to mandatory 20 shifts of people 2 hours just to take care of those 4 flights. With Penalty Hours you'd only have to get 4 crews worth of people and they would be paid only 1 hour which is what was really needed.

Other than that your weather events there are quite frequent. The mandatory slips create a ton of friction because a lot of people don't want them and management almost never gives the required 2 hour notice as they claim it was a flash cell weather event (BS IMO)

I've also literally seen people run and hide when the CSM was coming around with their little papers. I don't care how much we're getting paid now, very few people enjoy being forced to stay.

The PH brings back a voluntary situation and cuts down big time on the stress for both member and management.

I also personally know a lot of managers who would like to see it come back probably even more than I do.
 
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T5towbar said:
No.
You are allowed to leave as soon as your task you are presently in is completed, hence the name. EXAMPLE: If you are in the middle of a flight that leaves at 22:30; but the time is now 22:20 and you get off at 22:30, you are required to stay and complete the flight. Once pushed off, then you can leave and get paid the 1 hr after 22:31 even if it takes a minute over your time. The supervisor cannot make you stay for another task. PERIOD. (unless you are dumb enough to volunteer) He/She has to sign your exception card and find someone else to do the next incoming that comes to the gate you are working, or wherever UROC sent you. This is now strictly enforced. Management cannot make anyone stay, unless Mandatory is called (well ahead of time, and lists are posted). The good thing about that is no more exception cards are needed on Mandatory - if you are selected, the computer has already put that in the payroll system.

Since I work late, someone has to close out since RON's come in around my exit time. The supervisor signs my exception card in advance, and I get paid, even if it is one minute over. And if the supervisor ask me to start earlier - before my shift time starts, (ie: someone is missing on the previous shift and a plane has to be brought in) I get paid TASKCOM (1 hour) on the front end of the day as well. So it is possible you can get paid for 10 hours within a 8 hour workday. Once I leave, there is a NightHawk crew to finish off the night and prep the HeadStarts the next morning.
Click to expand...

Thanks T5 and congratulations for gaining something we used to have that was IMMENSELY popular.

Maybe AA doesn't like us as much as your company likes you? (Yea I'm trying to manipulate and laying it on thick so sue me)
 
WeAAsles said:
T5 works for UAL Bob. When I get a chance I'll elaborate further about the Penalty Hours or as it's called at UAL Task Completion and WHY the company should sign an agreement to bring it back at AA.

Ok. I know you weren't with us back when we had it Bob but I'll use DFW as an example. As I recall you had a ton of 1:00 to 9:30 shifts. Now say you get a minor weather event that closes the ramp for say 30 minutes. That backs up 4 outbounds that won't have coverage and need some scrambling. Maybe you have 20 of those shifts there right now? Management would have to mandatory 20 shifts of people 2 hours just to take care of those 4 flights. With Penalty Hours you'd only have to get 4 crews worth of people and they would be paid only 1 hour which is what was really needed.

Other than that your weather events there are quite frequent. The mandatory slips create a ton of friction because a lot of people don't want them and management almost never gives the required 2 hour notice as they claim it was a flash cell weather event (BS IMO)

I've also literally seen people run and hide when the CSM was coming around with their little papers. I don't care how much we're getting paid now, very few people enjoy being forced to stay.

The PH brings back a voluntary situation and cuts down big time on the stress for both member and management.

I also personally know a lot of managers who would like to see it come back probably even more than I do.
Click to expand...

For the benefit of those that aren't familiar with the process, you should to start with the fact that the Company would first need to go to the overtime list and if that doesn't give enough bodies, then they ask for volunteers. After that has been exhausted and if the need persists, then they can hold mandatory.

No such thing as a 2 hour notice on a mandatory OT assignment.

The PH, which was popular would come back if the Company can implement certain guidelines to avoid the issues that made them want to get rid of it. The biggest detriment for us, was the fact that most would take it if it meant a minimal outlay of time. Most wouldn't take if it meant doing an entire flight. On the other hand, they would take it if it was a push which took them no more than 15 minutes past their original quit time.

It would be great to get it back, but it won't be as it used to be.
 
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NYer said:
For the benefit of those that aren't familiar with the process, you should to start with the fact that the Company would first need to go to the overtime list and if that doesn't give enough bodies, then they ask for volunteers. After that has been exhausted and if the need persists, then they can hold mandatory.

No such thing as a 2 hour notice on a mandatory OT assignment.

The PH, which was popular would come back if the Company can implement certain guidelines to avoid the issues that made them want to get rid of it. The biggest detriment for us, was the fact that most would take it if it meant a minimal outlay of time. Most wouldn't take if it meant doing an entire flight. On the other hand, they would take it if it was a push which took them more than 15 minutes past their original quit time.

It would be great to get it back, but it won't be as it used to be.
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Hate to maybe give ideas to the company readers but at $45.00 I'd take it every time it's offered even if I was required to stay 15, 20 or even 30 minutes.

But actually the process that it "used" to be no longer exists anymore since we lost it in 03 so who knows how a new deal in the future could be written if mutually agreed on?

On the rest of your comment it sounds like you were having the exact same issues in MIA that we were having in DFW. People looking for the easiest amount of money they can get their hands on and saying no if they had to sweat a little.
 
I'd take it only if I could see a demonstrable effort to either realign the work schedule or to hire more people. Unanticipated events are one thing. Having them happen every night is another...
 
Kev3188 said:
I'd take it only if I could see a demonstrable effort to either realign the work schedule or to hire more people. Unanticipated events are one thing. Having them happen every night is another...
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Is that like what we used to call a "short hour" or "quick hour" at NWA?
 
WeAAsles said:
Hate to maybe give ideas to the company readers but at $45.00 I'd take it every time it's offered even if I was required to stay 15, 20 or even 30 minutes.

But actually the process that it "used" to be no longer exists anymore since we lost it in 03 so who knows how a new deal in the future could be written if mutually agreed on?
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Kev3188 said:
I'd take it only if I could see a demonstrable effort to either realign the work schedule or to hire more people. Unanticipated events are one thing. Having them happen every night is another...
Click to expand...


I'd say for about 95% of the people working it was only an occasional ask. Maybe 5% did have a hookup of some kind. Could be even less. Usually coordinator CC's
 
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