JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Worldport]

It is a total disaster! Take off your blinders and see its future, the DOL ruling means nothing!
You could have the best team running the plan and still will be a disaster, its only future is
based on employees working in growing industries. Even though the airline business is growing, the
use of outsourcing in all job areas the plan has members kills the plan. The PBGC has washed its
hands of all multi-company pension plans and the TWU is failing its members by even considering
it. I will not vote for any agreement that has the IAMPF as an option.

If you are given  the"option" of the IAMPF or 401 you are going to vote no?

 

[Tim Nelson]

It is a total disaster! Take off your blinders and see its future, the DOL ruling means nothing!
You could have the best team running the plan and still will be a disaster, its only future is
based on employees working in growing industries. Even though the airline business is growing, the
use of outsourcing in all job areas the plan has members kills the plan. The PBGC has washed its
hands of all multi-company pension plans and the TWU is failing its members by even considering
it. I will not vote for any agreement that has the IAMPF as an option.

+1

It is a total disaster. Has nothing to do with opinion either. It had to adjust the plan in 2003 and create the B scale benefit plan. Then it had to announce another adjustment in 2010. The federal government allowed multi employer plans to adjust their books and show their liabilities over 29 years, up from 15 I think, so this artificially created a new funding of 116% in 2009. After the newer adjustments and realizing and mobilizing its plan of wiping out future liabilities by abolishing the A Scale plan, it bought itself 7 more years and had a funding of 108% in 2012. But the plan has slipped about 2% a year since and now hovers at 101% under the most favorable market conditions I might add. The problem is one that the number of active participants simply can't sustain it. And it is worse when applying the market value of the plan which offers a clearer picture of the funding. Under that, you can wipe out $1 billion of accounting since the Actuarial values are more favorable [101% level and dropping as well.

In 2010, the plan had 278,000 participants, of which 111,000 was active. In the latest funding, the plan's participants was 276,000 but the active participants dropped 14% down to 97,000. In other words, the trend is incredibly alarming and shows that the partipants are old and retiring, but no new influx of more IAM members to sustain the scheme.

Nobody can say with a straight face that this plan isn't in any danger of further and extensive benefit cuts. Remember, the last two benefit cuts were when the fund was hovering around 95% funding. The trustees never stand around waiting for the plan to drop below 90%. For those reasons, the Trustees have to mobilize and make another cut, most likely in 2 or 3 years. While it is anyone's guess how they will achieve that, the most likely scenario will be to cut the current benefits of retirees since President Obama changed the law to allow the Union Pension Funds to rob their members [employer plans still can't go after retiree funds]. To say this is highway robbery is an understatement. Video is coming and it will provide "Shock and Awe" against Sito and the rest of the IAM Pension trustees.

 

[Tim Nelson]

If you are given  the"option" of the IAMPF or 401 you are going to vote no?

I think that is reasonable for him. Voting yes to a $30 wage but tossing your complete retirement into the trash can seems cost neutral to me and not moving forward.
For me, my retirement is already garbage [now or later according to the math] so $30 isn't being used to subsidize any new cuts.

 

[WeAAsles]

The lawyers, experts, etc are concerned about $$$ and ripping off more hard working blue collar workers by sucking them into an absolute money pit. No doubt they dn't care about me or anyone else who doesn't support and enhance their $$$ and the IAMPF. That's the story.

I trust MY union and MY negotiators. If you don't trust yours, that's a problem for you to figure out.

https://actionnetwork.org/forms/today-we-unite-justice-for-american-airlines-workers?source=facebook

 

[WeAAsles]

I think that is reasonable for him. Voting yes to a $30 wage but tossing your complete retirement into the trash can seems cost neutral to me and not moving forward.For me, my retirement is already garbage [now or later according to the math] so $30 isn't being used to subsidize any new cuts.

You're responding to a mechanic who I'm sure was offered $30.00 would vote no. My question is would he vote no for $100.00 per hour even if he were "forced" into the IAMPF?

That would be very stupid IMO.

 

[WeAAsles]

It is a total disaster! Take off your blinders and see its future, the DOL ruling means nothing!
You could have the best team running the plan and still will be a disaster, its only future is
based on employees working in growing industries. Even though the airline business is growing, the
use of outsourcing in all job areas the plan has members kills the plan. The PBGC has washed its
hands of all multi-company pension plans and the TWU is failing its members by even considering
it. I will not vote for any agreement that has the IAMPF as an option.

Let's talk about some mathematic idiocity here. I think you're going to go up to between $55 an $60 per hour when you get your contract. The company currently puts in for mechanics at US $2.00 per hour up to 40 hours. So $80 per month. So how much would you lose if you voted no and maybe it took another year for your next vote? Just because that IAMPF may be simply offered to you.

How many times over and over have I read this same story that always turns out worse the next time you read it? Turn down the first offer and the second one (which passes BTW) is always worse.

Human Beings = Simple emotional creatures of habit.

 

[Worldport]

You're responding to a mechanic who I'm sure was offered $30.00 would vote no. My question is would he vote no for $100.00 per hour even if he were "forced" into the IAMPF?

That would be very stupid IMO.

I understand if "forced" to join they would vote no, but given an option of the plan or a 401 they would still vote no that is ludicrous

 

[WeAAsles]

I understand if "forced" to join they would vote no, but given an option of the plan or a 401 they would still vote no that is ludicrous

Saturday I went to a pizzeria and ordered a chicken parm sandwich. When I got it they had 2 green peppers on the side. I told them to throw it away and give me a sandwich without the peppers.

I don't care if the peppers weren't touching my sandwich or that I had to pay $13.00 twice. It was the principle of it all that bothered me.

 

[Worldport]

Saturday I went to a pizzeria and ordered a chicken parm sandwich. When I got it they had 2 green peppers on the side. I told them to throw it away and give me a sandwich without the peppers.

I don't care if the peppers weren't touching my sandwich or that I had to pay $13.00 twice. It was the principle of it all that bothered me.

Who from NY calls it a sandwich? Remember hero

 

[WeAAsles]

Who from NY calls it a sandwich? Remember hero

Hero, sandwich or sub I'm sure you got my point.

 

[Worldport]

Hero, sandwich or sub I'm sure you got my point.

I did, but you are losing your NY edge guess it had to happen

 

[Tim Nelson]

New Update from Gary Peterson [I think that is his name], the Local President of TWU Local 591

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIGRwYSP_cM&feature=youtu.be

I support his video but I do have a question, how can we blame Parker for open articles that the Association and Weasel admit that haven't even been presented to Parker?

I mean the weasel has said that the Association hasn't even bothered to send any proposals to the company regarding all the meat and potatoe items so the weasel can't have it both ways. Why blame Parker if the Association hasn't pushed a proposal for him to review???? The members wanna know.

 

[Talos]

I understand if "forced" to join they would vote no, but given an option of the plan or a 401 they would still vote no that is ludicrous

If the members are given a choice then it's a good situation. The stuff I've read about multi employer plans is not good at all. I can't imagine being retired and then informed your pension check is going down.If some of the things said about the TWU being willing to stick us in the IAMPF without members having a say then that's pretty low. What they ought to do is figure a better deal for the LUS people who are in it already. They won't or can't.

 

[WeAAsles]

New Update from Gary Peterson [I think that is his name], the Local President of TWU Local 591https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIGRwYSP_cM&feature=youtu.beI support his video but I do have a question, how can we blame Parker for open articles that the Association and Weasel admit that haven't even been presented to Parker?I mean the weasel has said that the Association hasn't even bothered to send any proposals to the company regarding all the meat and potatoe items so the weasel can't have it both ways. Why blame Parker if the Association hasn't pushed a proposal for him to review???? The members wanna know.

FIRST thing presented to the company were full comprehensive proposals, day 1. No response from AA company talking heads.

Next?

 

[Worldport]

FIRST thing presented to the company were full comprehensive proposals, day 1. No response from AA company talking heads.

Next?

Do you know that for a fact? Seems hard to believe considering all the infighting that is still going on.