JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[700UW]

You dont even know that AA, UA and DL have all been bring more maintenance back in-house.
 
Keep saying the sky is falling, and worry about your own CBA and scope, which will be a battle.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You dont even know that AA, UA and DL have all been bring more maintenance back in-house.
 
Keep saying the sky is falling, and worry about your own CBA and scope, which will be a battle.

I certainly hope the tide changes and that DL, UA, and AA bring back more work in house. You may be right about that, I just don't think the evidence supports that. I'm not worried about my CBA but I remain concerned if it is weighed down with an extensive delay due to MX/union politics. It's easy for you and other non-American employee outsiders to claim that loyalty, nobility and principle are only found in fleet waiting around for MX, even if that takes months or years, but I doubt you will find good reason from any fleet service person who agrees with you that fleet should sacrifice a TA and put it on the shelf for months if Parker wants industry comparables for MX. Again, I hope you are right and Jerry Glass and Parker want to bring more work in MX, but I just don't think the evidence supports that.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

I certainly hope the tide changes and that DL, UA, and AA bring back more work in house. You may be right about that, I just don't think the evidence supports that. I'm not worried about my CBA but I remain concerned if it is weighed down with an extensive delay due to MX/union politics. It's easy for you and other non-American employee outsiders to claim that loyalty, nobility and principle are only found in fleet waiting around for MX, even if that takes months or years, but I doubt you will find good reason from any fleet service person who agrees with you that fleet should sacrifice a TA and put it on the shelf for months if Parker wants industry comparables for MX. Again, I hope you are right and Jerry Glass and Parker want to bring more work in MX, but I just don't think the evidence supports that.regards,

I was told (haven't watched it) at a recent Town Hall Parker did mention about employing almost 5000 more mechanics than Delta. But he also said there wouldn't be any job loses from what I guess AA has planned for its maintenance program (If the negotiators agree of course) So that stands to reason that the loses in headcount will come through attrition?

No guarantee but I wouldn't be surprised once all groups are locked in under contracts if the company offers a buyout package to try and get those numbers down quicker?

Many analysts have said that AA is still too employee top heavy and once the merger is complete they should begin thinning down the ranks? For Fleet at least in two hubs, DFW and MIA they have hired a ton of newbies that I suspect the intention was to get them online and proficient in the job before the offer comes out? OT here in MIA has dried up like a dessert pond so that tells me they have plenty of manpower I guess.

Tim let's keep in mind again that the mechanics still could possibly be finished before us. I was just cracking on them yesterday because the Forum rock throwers read our thread since there's is a total bore (All they're griping over now is rotating shifts) and I honestly really haven't changed my position that we should all come out at the same time (As long as people are negotiating reasonably)

regards

 

[Kev3188]

I certainly hope the tide changes and that DL, UA, and AA bring back more work in house...,

I can't speak to any base maintenance issues, but DL has opened/reopened several line stations over the last 18 months...

 

[700UW]

And they are investing in bringing in new engine types.

 

[Kev3188]

And a test cell, too. I just don't know enough specifics off of the top of my head to post about it.

 

[WeAAsles]

I can't speak to any base maintenance issues, but DL has opened/reopened several line stations over the last 18 months...

Kev that's good to read. But are any of those cities hiring in regular employees or are they all Ready Reserve? I'm hoping maybe after we lock in a deal Delta management will look at their numbers and maybe start reversing the trend toward more of them and less of you?

They can't run a full blown operation using only Ready Reserve employees I'd have to think? Even with the massive savings they get out of them in pay and benefits? And the turnover has to be tremendous?

 

[WeAAsles]

I can't speak to any base maintenance issues, but DL has opened/reopened several line stations over the last 18 months...

I guess they never hire in outside of only offering a RR position?

https://delta.greatjob.net/jobs/JobListingAction.action;jsessionid=0AA0F94693932F73F9DA7C61535413A6?jobCategory=&PSUID=8c4d0c62-b9f1-478d-9b76-a77f6492d8da

 

[Kev3188]

I was talking about maintenance. As far as I know, all are regular employees.

As for running a place using only Ready Reserve? I'm sure they're trying to figure out how to make that work- for any job category.

 

[Kev3188]

I guess they never hire in outside of only offering a RR position?https://delta.greatjob.net/jobs/JobListingAction.action;jsessionid=0AA0F94693932F73F9DA7C61535413A6?jobCategory=&PSUID=8c4d0c62-b9f1-478d-9b76-a77f6492d8da

Correct. All external hiring in ACS (ramp/customer service) is done via the Ready Reserve program.

 

[WeAAsles]

I was talking about maintenance. As far as I know, all are regular employees.
As for running a place using only Ready Reserve? I'm sure they're trying to figure out how to make that work- for any job category.

I have to use a term to differentiate between the two groups. A barely paid no benefit job to me just doesn't really classify as a real (or regular) job. I'm offended by the RR program, not the people. To me the use and existence of such a program is disgusting in too many ways to think about. Used and abused Human Resources.

 

[WeAAsles]

Correct. All external hiring in ACS (ramp/customer service) is done via the Ready Reserve program.

Have you heard of anyone systemwide being upgraded off the program in the last year?

 

[Kev3188]

I have to use a term to differentiate between the two groups. A barely paid no benefit job to me just doesn't really classify as a real (or regular) job. I'm offended by the RR program, not the people. To me the use and existence of such a program is disgusting in too many ways to think about. Used and abused Human Resources.

  

The program as originally intended is okay. The idea of augmenting an incumbent workforce during large spikes in operations is reasonable. I'd also say that using it as a de facto probationary period would be tolerable.

My issue is with the exponential-and unchecked- growth of it. It's gone from what I'm
Instead above to a default part time employment program. The employees aren't just coming for the holiday rush or something finite; they're working year round.

Have you heard of anyone systemwide being upgraded off the program in the last year?

Yes, but primarily in places like JFK/LGA/SEA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I have to use a term to differentiate between the two groups. A barely paid no benefit job to me just doesn't really classify as a real (or regular) job. I'm offended by the RR program, not the people. To me the use and existence of such a program is disgusting in too many ways to think about. Used and abused Human Resources.

The IAM created and originated the RR program back in the 90s. Delta followed. We finally got rid of it in 2014. The IAM also created the 'weekend part timer', and permanent part timer wage scale at Hawaiian. I know sometimes Unions have to sign some crazy stuff but I don't believe any union, ever, in any situation should concede to such awful working conditions for a class of people as ready reserve.

At United, the IAM maintains ready reserve as well, they just call them temp agents. Most, if not all agents, are hired in as temp agents now. No seniority, no benefits, nothing.

I'm a bit more vigilant against ready reserve/temp agents than most so that's why I welcomed the news that our negotiators were addressing temp agents even though this category of peeps hasn't even been a classification that LUS management has really utilized. If any company utilized ready reserve solely as a sorta probationary employee, as Kev suggested, then maybe there is a place where I can apprehend the reasoning, but during bad times or in times of very contentious labor talks, having ready reserve could be a sword against our negotiators. Basically, I trust management zilch with such rules.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

  

The program as originally intended is okay. The idea of augmenting an incumbent workforce during large spikes in operations is reasonable. I'd also say that using it as a de facto probationary period would be tolerable.

 

I can understand (although not obviously a fan) in a city that has a staggered flight schedule, the use of those types of employees. But unless you live at home with Mommy and Daddy there's no way you could ever have a life since it would be impossible to have a second job.

As a probationary period, say one year (tough it out) I can wrap my head around it. But without a contract to hold managements feet to the fire even if they said they would do it, I doubt they'd abide by it.
 

  
My issue is with the exponential-and unchecked- growth of it. It's gone from what I'm
Instead above to a default part time employment program. The employees aren't just coming for the holiday rush or something finite; they're working year round.
 

Precisely. Like I've said to you before I'm sure they hire them in with the promise of riches and glory but the carrot on a stick is still the best way of all to keep the mules working.
 

Yes, but primarily in places like JFK/LGA/SEA.

Glad to hear that. But you just named 3 high COL areas. Not very likely that anyone is going to transfer to those places to gain the FT or PT regular position and I assume they start at the bottom of the scale you're on? Who could afford that.