JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Go ask DL they bring in over $1 billion a year profits from maintenance, can't say that about fleet?

I agree bro but it's also something that Parker said he doesn't want to do. He wants to run an Airline, not an MRO. But Delta must also be incredibly more productive then our guys? AA has 5000 more Mechanics than Delta and somehow Delta mechanics are also generating revenue for the airline?

Jeez Louise there really is something a little off here?

 

[WeAAsles]

Which brings up a "Big Picture" question of helping the company, but at what expense to co-workers, because you raise the spector of the importance of corporate financial well-being and competitive metrics?  For example, if I observed better ways to staff operations and to have less down time, thus better staffing utilization, but it would require lay-offs or hours reductions, would that be ethical or leave it to the Stupidvisors and (Mis)managers to figure it out?

Jester from bringing up the items I wrote we already are way more productive than our Mechanics are, if of course they are demanding the same pay as their counterparts. Maybe I should reach out to some friends I know and get the SWA ramp numbers? But they also have more inhouse work then we do so I'm going to bet the numbers of employees match up pretty well?

Delta and United are already pretty similar to our numbers as well. It just seems like it might be Maintenance at AA that's out of whack on headcount?

So just maybe Tim is right and we shouldn't be tied to their coattails? No one in maintenance currently can seem to get a deal? It could be a big problem here?

 

[ograc]

I'll go on record saying I'm against waiting to vote on or implementing a T/A until negotiations with the mechanics and related have wrapped up. I will also say I would not expect that work group to wait on fleet. Any other type of support they may request, I'm all for it.

 
Separate Bargaining Units as defined by the Company, Union and the Courts. Strength in numbers? Under these conditions... a paper lion. If either bargaining unit tried to sympathize, by honoring lines of the other, they would be slapped with a company sought court injunction within hours. A court order to the union, sought by the company, to force the sympathy group to cross the lines and report to work or the union would be subject to the risk of  being held in contempt and subject to fine. Separate Bargaining Units as defined by law. Separate and different issues. I, personally, will do whatever I can to support our Sisters and Brothers on the MTC side, however, I believe, it is in the best interest of the IAM and both groups, to focus on the issues specific to each respective Bargaining Group. Enough sabre rattling. Let's move on.   
 

 

[Talos]

 No sense in the 2 work groups disputing each others worth. It's the unions job to educate the members on the costs compared to the other airlines and come up with a deal that puts us on the top " hopefully". Any deal they do should be presented with comparisons to the other airlines so members can at least know who outsources work in what areas who pays what and how do benefits stack up. It has taken so long that it's easy for frustrations to come out. I'm sure the company loves it.

 

[700UW]

So now we have elitists Rampers.

So it was certainly ok when the mechanics at PMUS had a TA several weeks before fleet and fleet needed mechanics support to get their deal done.

Maybe you should all resurrect the AGW and have your own union with Tim as your grand poohbah.

 

[WeAAsles]

No sense in the 2 work groups disputing each others worth. It's the unions job to educate the members on the costs compared to the other airlines and come up with a deal that puts us on the top " hopefully". Any deal they do should be presented with comparisons to the other airlines so members can at least know who outsources work in what areas who pays what and how do benefits stack up. It has taken so long that it's easy for frustrations to come out. I'm sure the company loves it.

I'm not frustrated at all. The truth just might be that AA still has too much overhead? We don't want that as an anchor around our heads here in Fleet. Our issues on this thread are Fleet specific. Maintenance wants to deal with their own issues on their own and maybe I'm just thinking "Ok Sayonara"

We had a mechanic come in here earlier today that gave us his stamp of approval to move forward. Maybe he's right?

 

[WeAAsles]

So now we have elitists Rampers.
So it was certainly ok when the mechanics at PMUS had a TA several weeks before fleet and fleet needed mechanics support to get their deal done.
Maybe you should all resurrect the AGW and have your own union with Tim as your grand poohbah.

What you're not seeming to understand is that the mechanics DO NOT want us to tag along and assist them.

If you're not wanted at someone else's party do you stay anyway or politely get up and leave?

 

[700UW]

So you surveyed all 14,000 mechanics to know what they want?

 

[WeAAsles]

So now we have elitists Rampers.

So it was certainly ok when the mechanics at PMUS had a TA several weeks before fleet and fleet needed mechanics support to get their deal done.

Maybe you should all resurrect the AGW and have your own union with Tim as your grand poohbah.

BTW 700 according to the data US only employed 9.9 Mechanics per aircraft. So it was probably pretty easy for them to come to a deal?

But maybe the AA mechanics want to have their cake and eat it too? Reading what the guys on Forums have been saying for years they DO NOT want jobs. They want pay.

So who are we to fight what they want? Maybe it's us who have been looking at this all wrong?

 

[WeAAsles]

So you surveyed all 14,000 mechanics to know what they want?

Of course not. I'm going to from now on only use the information I get from members who participate on Forums.

Except for one or two individuals they all seem to be pretty universal on their feelings.

 

[robbedagain]

Ill say this   as for FSA  we should get dam good pay considering it is one of the most dangerous jobs given the fact we are surrounded by aircraft and vehicles consistently     From off loading to loading to push back etc  I think we as FSA should be compensated with both wages and benefits  nicely   may be not on the scale of mechanics or pilots but still

 

[ograc]

Different work groups represented by one union. A Machinists Union, representing licensed  Mechanics. The belief by many on the MTC. side for years. I was in PIT at the time the IAM won representation rights for the Fleet Service at LUS. Although we were acknowledged by the IAM; it was a cautious reception locally. I will say the IAM Local Lodge Executive Board was receptive and inclusive. The general consensus among members in MTC. and Related, however, was not the same. The belief was; we were yet another group, like Related (Utility,) that would continually ride the coat tail of the licensed Mechanic. A drag on their contractual negotiations. 20 some years later... we continue to have this in house fighting.    

 

[Tim Nelson]

I mean when you look at 2014 data there were 17.4 "In House" maintenance personnel per aircraft. Delta had 11.4 United had 10.5 and SWA (ick) an abysmal 3.5 in house maintenance workers per aircraft.

That's 6 more people per aircraft that AA employs over the next nearest competitor. So if AA 942 mainline aircraft in service today then that means that they also employ roughly 5,652 more people then maybe they need?

The mechanics want to look after their own skin so what's wrong with us maybe thinking similar to the way they do?

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2014%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/American%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html

^^^^This^^^^

 

[Kev3188]

I agree bro but it's also something that Parker said he doesn't want to do. He wants to run an Airline, not an MRO. But Delta must also be incredibly more productive then our guys? AA has 5000 more Mechanics than Delta and somehow Delta mechanics are also generating revenue for the airline?
Jeez Louise there really is something a little off here?

Anderson said the same thing when he was at NW. Interesting how things change...

 

[Tim Nelson]

So now we have elitists Rampers.

So it was certainly ok when the mechanics at PMUS had a TA several weeks before fleet and fleet needed mechanics support to get their deal done.

Maybe you should all resurrect the AGW and have your own union with Tim as your grand poohbah.

Again, if you can present a positive outcome for fleet that is expeditious then please do so. Unfortunately, you reduce your position [whatever it may be] down to personal Barbie trantrums.
Nobody is saying these are easy issues to consider but there are clear and present differences, in these talks, that one must recognize especially as Parker continues to use comparables with Delta, and United. Not saying I'm right but I think the big elephant in the room would be if Sito made the same statement to the company as he did in 2013 when he said he would sign all the TA's together. And he had to bust the Maintenance planners a bit as well since they thought they were going to take advantage of this and ask for the moon. I'm not sure what the IAM/TWU strategy is because they have not been so forthtelling this time. That being said, American has thousands and thousands of more MX than United or Delta and this is my point. I believe the MX talks will be long and difficult, whereas the comparabilities with fleet would suggest a quick solution.

For that reason, I'm against fleet being "Siamese[d]" with MX with respect to negotiations. I hope I'm wrong and that Parker agrees to keep twice the amount of mechanics as other airlines but he has been a shrewd negotiator and stands on the shoulders of Jerry Glass and logically I can't come up with any conclusion that the MX talks will be anything short of involving extensive delays. Never mind that the MX always seem to want to decertify and the political situation could present a bonfire of division if MX feels it got shortchanged.....which it will since their expectations have always been considerably high [which I commend but it will take incredible time to negotiate]. A United MX agreement may help speed things up here but, again, the MX is a craft that is getting eaten alive with foreign workers, unlike fleet. And that's the story.

regards,