JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

The reason they push the pension plan is because they claim you will have all this money. But in reality it is a bank for the union to dip into for political contributions to who knows what.A 401k is yours , you controll it, not your union, and it can't be frozen. Plus if you quit once you are vested and go to another job with a 401k, you can roll that old American Airlines 401k into your new 401k. Try to do that with a pension. The only pension that I know is safe is if you retired out of the military.

For the most part I agree. Taking pension funds under management and being used for PAC contributions would be a serious offense but we have seen other questionable “handling” of union managed retirement funds but I wouldn’t say that’s the primary reason to stay away from the IAMNPF. No doubt having a large amount of funds (or other assets such as real estate) under management gives labor some “clout” and in some cases can help push the unions agenda but the IAM shouldn’t be in the pension business, (**yes I realize that on paper the IAMNPF is a “separate” but related entity from the IAM**) they should instead focus on negotiating and enforcing strong CBAs and provide solid representation and service to the membership. I mean why do we hear stories about grievances taking SEVEN (7) years on this forum? That’s pathetic by any standard.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Another thing...ill push the 401k with objective info. Smart people will listen. Most of the knuckleheads on here wont. Morons.

Well I’m still going to look at whatever is offered to me and make a choice considering all the pertinent information I can get both pro and con.

And I can assure you Tim that if you put your more than likely meager retirement portfolio next to mine I’m far from a financial knucklehead.

BTW if you really want to help people, calling them knuckleheads (You kook) is not going to draw you in much of a crowd. Except for maybe a few looking to give you a shiner and a bent up schnoz.

 

[WeAAsles]

When the time comes “IF” TWU members are offered inclusion into the IAMNPF and IAM members are offered a choice to leave, seek out a professional advisor rather than listening to ANY of us Social Media experts, friends or family members you find out there.

The Bottom Line
Not all financial advisors have the same level of training or will offer you the same depth of services. Thus, when contracting with the advisor, do your own due diligence first and make sure the advisor can meet your financial planning needs. Check out his or her certifications before engaging the advisor and be sure you understand and agree with their fee structure.

Read more: What Do Financial Advisors Do? | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/articl...at-do-financial-advisers-do.asp#ixzz58nYdLqAo
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[737823]

When the time comes “IF” TWU members are offered inclusion into the IAMNPF and IAM members are offered a choice to leave, seek out a professional advisor rather than listening to ANY of us Social Media experts, friends or family members you find out there.

The Bottom Line
Not all financial advisors have the same level of training or will offer you the same depth of services. Thus, when contracting with the advisor, do your own due diligence first and make sure the advisor can meet your financial planning needs. Check out his or her certifications before engaging the advisor and be sure you understand and agree with their fee structure.

Read more: What Do Financial Advisors Do? | Investopedia https://www.investopedia.com/articl...at-do-financial-advisers-do.asp#ixzz58nYdLqAo
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

Sage advice. My comment was regarding my view that it is in the IAM’s interest and desire to have the IAMNPF forced on the membership as a means to maintain more control and as a scare tactic to keep the membership from pursuing other representation.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well here:







And here: http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/why-no-contract-from-the-association.60606/page-8#post-1264664

Kev is a true advocate of airline workers and while I don’t fully agree with his perspective he is intellectually honest and stays true to his principles even if it is counter with the IAM leadership wants. If only he would have become a union leader and you guys had more leadership like him, the labor movement would be in much better shape.

Josh

The newest pension news comes out next month. Not good! It doesnt make any sense to stay in this pension because of 2 reasons.
1. Its gonna be cut and most likely they will also tap into it again.
2. Its capped at 40 hours. For members like me who work 75+ hours a week, just doesnt make sense when the 401 plan doesnt have an hour limit. People are stupid though and dont realize that pensions are dinosaurs because the government scaled back minimums and guarantees. There simply is no support for multi employer plans so unions gotta cut even deeper.

 

[Racer X]

The "floors" are just a piece of the puzzle. There is actually much more important language that can be used to curtail PT growth.

The floor language only maintains a ratio but it allows PT growth with a PT to FT ratio of 1:1. In other words, once you reach the floors, they can still bring in a PTer with every FTer.

That’s what I meant about the percentages. They won’t be able to do the 1 ft for 1 pt if the percentage of pt is based on the number of ft instead of the total employees.
Example: we have 10,000 total employees
40% of that total is 4,000pt
We have 10,000 employees ....but 7,000 are ft
Then 40% of 7,000 is 2,8000 pt. ( I know 7,000 and 2800 is 9800 I’m just giving an example)
So in 1st scenario 10,000 total 6,000 ft
4,000pt
2nd scenario. 9,800 total. 7,000 ft
2,800 pt
That’s a huge difference. Since we actually have about 17000 fleet.

 

[WeAAsles]

The newest pension news comes out next month. Not good! It doesnt make any sense to stay in this pension because of 2 reasons.
1. Its gonna be cut and most likely they will also tap into it again.
2. Its capped at 40 hours. For members like me who work 75+ hours a week, just doesnt make sense when the 401 plan doesnt have an hour limit. People are stupid though and dont realize that pensions are dinosaurs because the government scaled back minimums and guarantees. There simply is no support for multi employer plans so unions gotta cut even deeper.

Tim just for once why don’t you try to leave your personal opinions and speculations out of a topic you want to discuss. Your really not exactly a shining example of a life coach that anyone would want to emulate you know.

#1 you DO NOT know if the future payouts will be cut again as they were once before? That’s only a possibility. If the next update does show further deterioration in the funding levels though it does then raise that possibility.

#2 You’re living in a Studio Apartment in Chicago working tons of hours to get by when you could be living a much better and financially sound life in Charlotte, and you’re calling other people stupid? Uh yea ok McFly. Think McFly, think.

#3 You’re working 75 hours per week and are getting pretty long toothed. I hope you’re already putting a large percentage into some retirement accounts? (I’m afraid to even ask)

Tim I just seriously get the feeling you’re the LAST person anyone should take any financial advice from. You’re not exactly roaming the Country like Jay Z.

 

[Racer X]

That’s what I meant about the percentages. They won’t be able to do the 1 ft for 1 pt if the percentage of pt is based on the number of ft instead of the total employees.
Example: we have 10,000 total employees
40% of that total is 4,000pt
We have 10,000 employees ....but 7,000 are ft
Then 40% of 7,000 is 2,8000 pt. ( I know 7,000 and 2800 is 9800 I’m just giving an example)
So in 1st scenario 10,000 total 6,000 ft
4,000pt
2nd scenario. 9,800 total. 7,000 ft
2,800 pt
That’s a huge difference. Since we actually have about 17000 fleet.

More accurate numbers are 17,000 total at 40% Equates to 6,800pt/ 10,200ft
Or. 17,000 total but 40% of Ft equates to “roughly”.....12,000 ft and 4,800 pt. ( 16,800 )

 

[NYer]

That’s what I meant about the percentages. They won’t be able to do the 1 ft for 1 pt if the percentage of pt is based on the number of ft instead of the total employees.
Example: we have 10,000 total employees
40% of that total is 4,000pt
We have 10,000 employees ....but 7,000 are ft
Then 40% of 7,000 is 2,8000 pt. ( I know 7,000 and 2800 is 9800 I’m just giving an example)
So in 1st scenario 10,000 total 6,000 ft
4,000pt
2nd scenario. 9,800 total. 7,000 ft
2,800 pt
That’s a huge difference. Since we actually have about 17000 fleet.

Currently, we're about 7,100 FT and 2,000 PT, with the current language.

What keeps our numbers down, aside from the "floor" language is the restrictions in scheduling the PTers along with the OT language the TWU has, which forces the use of FTers before PTers.

 

[737823]

#2 You’re living in a Studio Apartment in Chicago working tons of hours to get by when you could be living a much better and financially sound life in Charlotte, and you’re calling other people stupid? Uh yea ok McFly. Think McFly, think.

Weez wants GEO pay

Josh

 

[P. REZ]

Well here:







And here: http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/why-no-contract-from-the-association.60606/page-8#post-1264664

Kev is a true advocate of airline workers and while I don’t fully agree with his perspective he is intellectually honest and stays true to his principles even if it is counter with the IAM leadership wants. If only he would have become a union leader and you guys had more leadership like him, the labor movement would be in much better shape.

Josh

I will agree that Kev seems to be a straight shooter. Now show us your banker skills and refute math. I don't want your hatred towards the IAM, do the math. About 9 months ago I showed several scenarios regarding pension versus 401k. Math showed the pension as the better alternative. I have both and believe in both, pension first, 401k as a supplement. I will repeat, all American workers should have a pension and supplement that with a 401k. Refute that.

P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

I will agree that Kev seems to be a straight shooter. Now show us your banker skills and refute math. I don't want your hatred towards the IAM, do the math. About 9 months ago I showed several scenarios regarding pension versus 401k. Math showed the pension as the better alternative. I have both and believe in both, pension first, 401k as a supplement. I will repeat, all American workers should have a pension and supplement that with a 401k. Refute that.

P. Rez

And another way to add to a well balanced retirement savings is if you can earn the same salary in a lower cost of living area perhaps you grow a brain and consider moving there?

And try to buy a roof over your head instead of blowing away cash on a rental unit.




A certain schmuck out there we all know could be putting another $12,000 per year into that 401k he talks about so much?

 

[Racer X]

Currently, we're about 7,100 FT and 2,000 PT, with the current language.

What keeps our numbers down, aside from the "floor" language is the restrictions in scheduling the PTers along with the OT language the TWU has, which forces the use of FTers before PTers.

I believe the latest numbers are approx 7,200 and 2,300. But those numbers contractually can increase. In particular, in the stations that are not covered under the 13 stand alone stations named in the Twu CBA. Those station theoretically could become 100% pt. ( I think ). In addition to those stations, the number can increase on a 1 for 1 basis in the stand alone stations. That in itself says there is no actual cap.
IMO the goal of the NC should be to get a finite %. At the least, that would contractually prevent the number of pt. How that could effect station by station I think is anybody’s guess.

 

[B737 driver]

The newest pension news comes out next month. Not good! It doesnt make any sense to stay in this pension because of 2 reasons.
1. Its gonna be cut and most likely they will also tap into it again.
2. Its capped at 40 hours. For members like me who work 75+ hours a week, just doesnt make sense when the 401 plan doesnt have an hour limit. People are stupid though and dont realize that pensions are dinosaurs because the government scaled back minimums and guarantees. There simply is no support for multi employer plans so unions gotta cut even deeper.

Pensions worked when the average worker was making say $10 to $15 an hour, and people didn't live much past 65. The math doesn't work anymore.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Currently, we're about 7,100 FT and 2,000 PT, with the current language.

What keeps our numbers down, aside from the "floor" language is the restrictions in scheduling the PTers along with the OT language the TWU has, which forces the use of FTers before PTers.

Our latest seniority roster had us between 7,000-8,000 members. If TWU has only 9,000 then somewhat similar.