JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Weas, I hear the concern on pt for TWU members is the floors. If MIA has the largest % already, IMO the impact could be felt more in Dfw.
Whereas the pt % could go system wide without floors for certain cities. But that’s My Night Fly.

So certain cities and my guess would be smaller cities where they may have a more staggered daily flight activity could have no floors whatsoever in that percentage?

Of course it’s nothing we can really discuss here right now just yet but I hope that any stations that do lose caps or floors have a FT protection in place for those members already there.

Oh and I’ll believe your Night Fly over any of Tim’s Day Flies. Sorry Tim but you have a horrible track record.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So certain cities and my guess would be smaller cities where they may have a more staggered daily flight activity could have no floors whatsoever in that percentage?

Of course it’s nothing we can really discuss here right now just yet but I hope that any stations that do lose caps or floors have a FT protection in place for those members already there.

Oh and I’ll believe your Night Fly over any of Tim’s Day Flies. Sorry Tim but you have a horrible track record.

Yea, ive been 100% accurate but i really hate being right. And most coworkers really just want the cash and dont understand more pt flexibility or lack of union work rules. Wont be much difference between our jcba and delta along some issues. If i can opt out of the bs pension then that would be interesting to me as a positive.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yea, ive been 100% accurate but i really hate being right. And most coworkers really just want the cash and dont understand more pt flexibility or lack of union work rules. Wont be much difference between our jcba and delta along some issues. If i can opt out of the bs pension then that would be interesting to me as a positive.

I’m sorry but you’re really not right very often. And why would anyone hate being right? I always found that comment rather oddball.

Anyway if you can opt out of the Pension there would be one I was 100% WRONG about. I’ve said there wouldn’t be a chance in hell of you opting out barring the Company dumping the entire idea in exchange for a much larger 401k Match?

Anyway we’ll see where that goes soon enough hopefully?

 

[737823]

I’m sorry but you’re really not right very often. And why would anyone hate being right? I always found that comment rather oddball.

Anyway if you can opt out of the Pension there would be one I was 100% WRONG about. I’ve said there wouldn’t be a chance in hell of you opting out barring the Company dumping the entire idea in exchange for a much larger 401k Match?

Anyway we’ll see where that goes soon enough hopefully?

Weez the IAM allowed AS COPS a choice between 401K and IAMNPF.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Weez the IAM allowed AS COPS a choice between 401K and IAMNPF.

Josh

It was a 1 time deal. This one time deal may partly be related to the company not wanting anything to do with it, without paying a withdrawal fee. Company knows what is coming. Not good!

 

[737823]

Tim the IAM probably knows people find the plan concerning and are worried many will select 401K match so it’s unlikely they will offer it.

Kev says 401K=“worker empowerment”

And it seems the IAM has long put the interests of the IAMNPF before the interests of the membership, see this from 2006 at NWA:

UT--

Of all the items the company was asking for in each of the proposed concessionary agreements, the *one* thing everyone-junior, senior, 'tween- I spoke with were amenable to was the 401k match. NW would have frozen the pension anyway, so the choice was either the match, or the IAMNP plan. NO ONE wanted the IAM plan, yet it was the one thing the IAM fought hardest for. Not scope, not wages, their plan...

And just how much will retiring folks get from the IAM plan? No one can tell you! The officers in DL143 have no idea how much the multiplier will be..... :angry:

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim the IAM probably knows people find the plan concerning and are worried many will select 401K match so it’s unlikely they will offer it.

Kev says 401K=“worker empowerment”

And it seems the IAM has long put the interests of the IAMNPF before the interests of the membership, see this from 2006 at NWA:



Josh

You would be surprised. We have alot af absolute morons who go by what they are told and dont think for themselves. Id be out of it really quick. No brainer.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim the IAM probably knows people find the plan concerning and are worried many will select 401K match so it’s unlikely they will offer it.

Kev says 401K=“worker empowerment”

And it seems the IAM has long put the interests of the IAMNPF before the interests of the membership, see this from 2006 at NWA:



Josh

Another thing...ill push the 401k with objective info. Smart people will listen. Most of the knuckleheads on here wont. Morons.

 

[737823]

Tim-
Does *anyone* want the IAMNPF in your involvement with organizing? I can’t imagine even the pro-IAM types at DL want the IAMNPF, and I think Kev has also more or less said something along those lines too.

What I don’t understand is why apparently the IAMNPF is willing to allow LAA TWU represented people through the association into the IAMNPF but said the IAMNPF would go away during the IBT representational election in August 2013. Why not just let LUS people who want to remain in the plan do so if they’re willing to let LAA TWU members IN without being IAM members? Seems to me it’s just a scare tactic.

Josh

 

[B737 driver]

Tim-
Does *anyone* want the IAMNPF in your involvement with organizing? I can’t imagine even the pro-IAM types at DL want the IAMNPF, and I think Kev has also more or less said something along those lines too.

What I don’t understand is why apparently the IAMNPF is willing to allow LAA TWU represented people through the association into the IAMNPF but said the IAMNPF would go away during the IBT representational election in August 2013. Why not just let LUS people who want to remain in the plan do so if they’re willing to let LAA TWU members IN without being IAM members? Seems to me it’s just a scare tactic.

Josh

The reason they push the pension plan is because they claim you will have all this money. But in reality it is a bank for the union to dip into for political contributions to who knows what.A 401k is yours , you controll it, not your union, and it can't be frozen. Plus if you quit once you are vested and go to another job with a 401k, you can roll that old American Airlines 401k into your new 401k. Try to do that with a pension. The only pension that I know is safe is if you retired out of the military.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh boy. Sigh.

 

[NYer]

Raising Pt Caps too? My Fly says cap changes only if it goes lower. I heard to be careful to not be misled by the %. If the pt% increases, match it against current language where LUS has pt of 40% of Total employees. Where even if pt increases, it could be % of FT employees. Which would be less pt. But that is “MY FLY”

That would be a huge hit on the TWU side where we're currently in the 20's.

 

[P. REZ]

I did the MATH months ago and proved with MATH that the pension makes sense because of MATH. The individuals that came up with the 401k have said it was established as a supplement to a pension. Every time I read someone comment 401k's cause worker empowerment or you control your retirement, I cringe because corporate America has succeeded in dropping pensions and selling you 401k's. I am talking pensions in general, EVERY WORKER IN AMERICA SHOULD HAVE A PENSION! They should all have a 401k to supplement that Pension too.

P. Rez

 

[NYer]

Weas, I hear the concern on pt for TWU members is the floors. If MIA has the largest % already, IMO the impact could be felt more in Dfw.
Whereas the pt % could go system wide without floors for certain cities. But that’s My Night Fly.

The "floors" are just a piece of the puzzle. There is actually much more important language that can be used to curtail PT growth.

The floor language only maintains a ratio but it allows PT growth with a PT to FT ratio of 1:1. In other words, once you reach the floors, they can still bring in a PTer with every FTer.

 

[737823]

I did the MATH months ago and proved with MATH that the pension makes sense because of MATH. The individuals that came up with the 401k have said it was established as a supplement to a pension. Every time I read someone comment 401k's cause worker empowerment or you control your retirement, I cringe because corporate America has succeeded in dropping pensions and selling you 401k's. I am talking pensions in general, EVERY WORKER IN AMERICA SHOULD HAVE A PENSION! They should all have a 401k to supplement that Pension too.

P. Rez

Well here:

Not necessarily. I know you like to harp on 401ks being a bad deal because it's your own money, but if the company is matching a good amount you'll make plenty and have control over your own retirement.

...And IMO, that control translates into worker empowerment...

I personally would like to see the IAM transition away from pensions entirely, and focus more on getting higher company contribution amounts and matching percentages for their members...

(Full disclosure: I'm currently a participant in the IAMNPF)

And here: http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/why-no-contract-from-the-association.60606/page-8#post-1264664

Kev is a true advocate of airline workers and while I don’t fully agree with his perspective he is intellectually honest and stays true to his principles even if it is counter with the IAM leadership wants. If only he would have become a union leader and you guys had more leadership like him, the labor movement would be in much better shape.

Josh