JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Timmy latches onto any controversial subject that he can spin, inflate, and agitate the membership with. He does this to hopefully gain political clout to forward his personal agenda...
His current issue du jour is Health Care...

Been that way since the 90's...

>SPIT<

Actually you’re right because when we originally started talking about the IAM Medical Tim was firmly in the camp of not being too concerned about it cause his kids were grown and he pays as a single. The extra added cost not being enough to really bother him that much.

Actually his issue de jour was the IAMPF. But since that talk has died down some at the moment the focus is much better placed back on the Medical issue.

But yes he does (unfortunately) try to win finding the best controversy he possibly can.

(And both issues IMO will work out just fine)

 

[Tim Nelson]

I don’t think so. Say the IAMPF is frozen (The Company doesn’t contribute any longer) and 16% “Match” is the compromise for that. How many people do you think Bob are going to put in 16% of their Gross to gain full access to that Match?

I don’t think you’ll find many that will or can even afford to from studies I’ve read. Hell I seriously know people right now who are topped out who aren’t even putting in 5.5% or most I talk to aren’t putting in any more than that.

The Company has access to all of that information of expected costs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...2/retirement/retirement-401k-match/index.html

Your opinion has no validity on this any more than anyone else. You don't know who will contribute 16% or not so stop with your madness. I'll give you your bias' but not your absoluteness of your opinion. For instance, you challenge me that I don't know if the IAMNPF will be cut again. What we do know is that each individual will have a choice of 16% in your scenario and that is sufficient, but that would be a personal choice and who could argue if someone chooses what is best for them is to only put in 8%? What is wrong, is when personal choice is left out, and the choice is made by the Union. Although I can't prove to you that the IAMNPF will whack my benefits again, what I can tell you is that if that happens it will NOT be my choice and that unfortunately I won't have any control over that.

Therein lies the difference between the IAMNPF and the 401k. It's called Choice!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Timmy latches onto any controversial subject that he can spin, inflate, and agitate the membership with. He does this to hopefully gain political clout to forward his personal agenda...
His current issue du jour is Health Care...

Been that way since the 90's...

>SPIT<

Um, why wouldn't my personal issue be health care? Sure, it has been health care for a very long time. And I hope it is at the absolute forefront with the Association. Why do you say it's only political when I mention it? It's natural as it's my own health care. You aren't on this healthcare as you aren't even an IAM member and only have your own catering company I thought?

 

[bob@las-AA]

I don’t think so. Say the IAMPF is frozen (The Company doesn’t contribute any longer) and 16% “Match” is the compromise for that. How many people do you think Bob are going to put in 16% of their Gross to gain full access to that Match?

I don’t think you’ll find many that will or can even afford to from studies I’ve read. Hell I seriously know people right now who are topped out who aren’t even putting in 5.5% or most I talk to aren’t putting in any more than that.

The Company has access to all of that information of expected costs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...2/retirement/retirement-401k-match/index.html

I agree, but for those few that do have their house in order, it would be easy. I’m at 15% and life is good.

 

[Tim Nelson]

With an ex-TWA on the NC they will likely have to keep STL (LAA TWU) and MCI (LUS IAM) so they have their 100% stations-it’s unlikely those will be given up for other small stations particularly places that are largely eagle departures.

Then again, unorganized Delta has places staffed with mainline that have ZERO mainline departures and are wholly DCI operated.

Josh

That's why unorganized Delta is still unorganized. They have mainline full time employees at small stations. The overall picture at Delta is a greater weight than at American, i.e., more conpensation, more work, etc, while comparable on the bad elements, i.e., ready reserve vs swissport/other contractors.

If you simply look at the two models, it's reasonable to suggest that if Delta ramp ever went union, on day 1, cargo will be completely eliminated and 5,000 jobs. Many small stations will be toast. Profit sharing will be eliminated as they know it. And they would not get any pay raises for the next 10 years as they struggle with their first contract. Never mind JetBlue which would immedateily all be contracted out just like at Frontier when Weez was pushing his TWU to organize Frontier rampers. All gone on day 1 after representation. Same with Spirit where the IAM organized then Spirit contracted out all stations including MYR, LGA, DTW but the IAM signed a AWFUL anti union contract to save FLL by agreeing to no health care, and a 12 year pay scale that tops out at $14. Spirit almost fell out of its chair and couldn't sign that deal quick enough. The deal was so awful that the IAM actually gave dispensation and cut off a few bucks in dues since most of those members applied for public aid.

 

[WeAAsles]

Your opinion has no validity on this any more than anyone else. You don't know who will contribute 16% or not so stop with your madness. I'll give you your bias' but not your absoluteness of your opinion. For instance, you challenge me that I don't know if the IAMNPF will be cut again. What we do know is that each individual will have a choice of 16% in your scenario and that is sufficient, but that would be a personal choice and who could argue if someone chooses what is best for them is to only put in 8%? What is wrong, is when personal choice is left out, and the choice is made by the Union. Although I can't prove to you that the IAMNPF will whack my benefits again, what I can tell you is that if that happens it will NOT be my choice and that unfortunately I won't have any control over that.

Therein lies the difference between the IAMNPF and the 401k. It's called Choice!

Man you are easy to manipulate. Mention that IAMPF and you’re off and running like a Jackrabbit. Lmao.

Oh and I never ever ever ever said that they might not cut your benefits again in the future. After the last funding report it’s actually becoming honestly more likely than not that it’s looking that way? Further cuts I mean.

Although the market has been on fire so you got a chance.

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree, but for those few that do have their house in order, it would be easy. I’m at 15% and life is good.

And I went up to 22% when they threw the $1000 bone at us and will stay at 22% until the next raises come in.

And life is damn good.

 

[WeAAsles]

That's why unorganized Delta is still unorganized. They have mainline full time employees at small stations. The overall picture at Delta is a greater weight than at American, i.e., more conpensation, more work, etc, while comparable on the bad elements, i.e., ready reserve vs swissport/other contractors.

If you simply look at the two models, it's reasonable to suggest that if Delta ramp ever went union, on day 1, cargo will be completely eliminated and 5,000 jobs. Many small stations will be toast. Profit sharing will be eliminated as they know it. And they would not get any pay raises for the next 10 years as they struggle with their first contract. Never mind JetBlue which would immedateily all be contracted out just like at Frontier when Weez was pushing his TWU to organize Frontier rampers. All gone on day 1 after representation. Same with Spirit where the IAM organized then Spirit contracted out all stations including MYR, LGA, DTW but the IAM signed a AWFUL anti union contract to save FLL by agreeing to no health care, and a 12 year pay scale that tops out at $14. Spirit almost fell out of its chair and couldn't sign that deal quick enough. The deal was so awful that the IAM actually gave dispensation and cut off a few bucks in dues since most of those members applied for public aid.

Back to talking to yourself again I see.

770 to 20

Eeeeee Gads that’s terrible. Sad.

 

[Kev3188]

I don’t think so. Say the IAMPF is frozen (The Company doesn’t contribute any longer) and 16% “Match” is the compromise for that. How many people do you think Bob are going to put in 16% of their Gross to gain full access to that Match?

I don’t think you’ll find many that will or can even afford to from studies I’ve read. Hell I seriously know people right now who are topped out who aren’t even putting in 5.5% or most I talk to aren’t putting in any more than that.

The Company has access to all of that information of expected costs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...2/retirement/retirement-401k-match/index.html

I'd like to see unions get out of the pension business (as much as they can, anyway), and focus on more efficient methods of compensation.

That's why unorganized Delta is still unorganized. They have mainline full time employees at small stations. The overall picture at Delta is a greater weight than at American, i.e., more conpensation, more work, etc, while comparable on the bad elements, i.e., ready reserve vs swissport/other contractors.

If you simply look at the two models, it's reasonable to suggest that if Delta ramp ever went union, on day 1, cargo will be completely eliminated and 5,000 jobs. Many small stations will be toast. Profit sharing will be eliminated as they know it. And they would not get any pay raises for the next 10 years as they struggle with their first contract. Never mind JetBlue which would immedateily all be contracted out just like at Frontier when Weez was pushing his TWU to organize Frontier rampers. All gone on day 1 after representation. Same with Spirit where the IAM organized then Spirit contracted out all stations including MYR, LGA, DTW but the IAM signed a AWFUL anti union contract to save FLL by agreeing to no health care, and a 12 year pay scale that tops out at $14. Spirit almost fell out of its chair and couldn't sign that deal quick enough. The deal was so awful that the IAM actually gave dispensation and cut off a few bucks in dues since most of those members applied for public aid.

Maybe?

But I will say this; AFAIK, right now FNT* is the smallest station of any major carrier that has mainline staff 3 M/L and 2 DCI flights/daily. That's the floor. Any union that wants to portray itself to the members as a value proposition needs to meet/beat that.

*Still staffed thanks to extant IAM Scope language at the time of the merger.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'd like to see unions get out of the pension business (as much as they can, anyway), and focus on more efficient methods of compensation.

.

I agree. And I’m very happy that the TWU never got themselves wrapped up in Pensions, Veba’s, Medical plans and most of those other hard sell businesses.

Although I’m not going back with you onto the subject of a Company sponsored DBP which you’ve never seemed to be much of a fan of.

(Thankfully lots of legs on my stool as I’ve said before)

 

[robbedagain]

Hey robbed, I need to clarify something an X-AA'er told me about your nego's. Are you guys hearing of reduction in headcount for the mechanics after the JCBA is done? He said he heard it from one of his old contacts and wanted me to inquire to see if true. He said it could be related to a station reductions or cities pared back on. Can you confirm or deny for me please? There has been conflicting post on here in the past about rif's, layoffs and relocations but I don't think any in the past were confirmed as the asso. is not letting any info out. I think CB has said that they are in no way entertaining a city build down, but was more interested in a city build up or an add to rather than take away maint. The AA'ers here are saying they do not know what to believe with all the different rumors flying, so any info would be greatly appreciated. I fully understand if you have not been told any of this, but this is how rumors and false information gets circulated with no meaningful updates describing what's really going on at the table. Hope you guys get some movement to an agreement at your next set of sessions. Our's is next week 6-8 with an invite from AMFA for our COO to attend and get the reality of what is really going on in nego's. Our COO has put it in writing that they could very well get a deal done in our March 6-8 nego's sessions, we will see if he speaks the truth. Good luck, we all should get new contracts in 2018...

As for MTR I have never heard of that Fleet wise we have heard of it with rumors of catering gone and some cities but its rumor that the Association is fighting it tooth and nail and trying to force DP to stick to his words bout having the best contract. From what I have heard from some of the neg leaders on here and on the IAM forum and phone calls they said that the current round (last round?) went better than previous rounds. Good luck to you folks at SWA and hope you get the best deal for your groups

 

[robbedagain]

I think I may have brought this up one before....

If you brought it up before I misread it my apologizes on that But yes it would be scope however I have heard from some of the neg leaders thru here and on the IAM page and other ways that the talks went better this time than previous the Assoc is not backing down on keeping the LUS type scope with enhancements and their trying to force DP to stick to his word

 

[cltrat]

(Thankfully lots of legs on my stool as I’ve said before)

There weren’t any legs on a recent stool I had but there were a couple of rest marks

 

[robbedagain]

That's why unorganized Delta is still unorganized. They have mainline full time employees at small stations. The overall picture at Delta is a greater weight than at American, i.e., more conpensation, more work, etc, while comparable on the bad elements, i.e., ready reserve vs swissport/other contractors.

If you simply look at the two models, it's reasonable to suggest that if Delta ramp ever went union, on day 1, cargo will be completely eliminated and 5,000 jobs. Many small stations will be toast. Profit sharing will be eliminated as they know it. And they would not get any pay raises for the next 10 years as they struggle with their first contract. Never mind JetBlue which would immedateily all be contracted out just like at Frontier when Weez was pushing his TWU to organize Frontier rampers. All gone on day 1 after representation. Same with Spirit where the IAM organized then Spirit contracted out all stations including MYR, LGA, DTW but the IAM signed a AWFUL anti union contract to save FLL by agreeing to no health care, and a 12 year pay scale that tops out at $14. Spirit almost fell out of its chair and couldn't sign that deal quick enough. The deal was so awful that the IAM actually gave dispensation and cut off a few bucks in dues since most of those members applied for public aid.

Tim I know DL in a number of cities for Ramp is not completely DL Kev has talked about it before In BWI for example Not the whole ramp is mainline DL despite that DL operates far more mainline than RJs. But remember DL can do as they please anytime they wish for whatever reason
As far as JB I would think JB has contract ramp at most cities except their key cities like BOS JFK FLL(??)

 

[PIEDMONT784]

"You aren't on this healthcare as you aren't even an IAM member and only have your own catering company I thought?"

The lengths you go to discredit others in here is astonishing. You pretend to know exactly who posts replies here... total BS!
Besides, if I were not an IAM member, I would not have been allowed to vote AGAINST your treasonous tickets for over 10 years...
And the last time I checked, you have to be a dues paying member in good standing to cast a ballot. If you think I'm not a member, you better call the DOL now, because I VOTE every single time!

I guess now Piedmont Airlines is some kind of catering company? Dude, you are F'd-up big time!

770 to 20!! SAD... >SPIT<