JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[pjirish317]

Again with the mischaracterization.
AA's medical is far from crappy.
When I compare the AA medical to other friends of mine that work for Fortune 500 companies, our medical is good, better than most.

LUS medical is not a $550 gain for me. The difference, as I've pointed out many times before , is less than a dollar a day as a single parent.
You're going to have to come to realize everyone is not married with kids, in fact , there may actually be a majority without a spouse and kids that are still eligible for medical coverage, given the demographic of the work group, but you keep spouting how it will affect one demographic of the workgroup as if it is all of us, it is not.

I noticed you made no mention of how the Holidays , Holiday pay, overtime, sick time, vacation is not equal as you pointed out how everyone got the same raise. The benefits are not equal.
So lets talk about how LAA will be made whole for the loss of revenue they've had in those areas I just mentioned, or will going to LAA medical be called a wash because you will then take a $550 a month cut, others, many others, will take much less of cut, at the end of the day, we will then, finally, all be on equal footing on every level, we currently are not.

Traymark,

Excellent point, my apologies, you are correct that it will only affect one demographic. And yes, the LAA medical plan is better than some others out there. But alas we work for LAA not those other companies. Why are the benefits not equal traymark? I made no mention of Holidays, Holiday pay, OT, Sick Time or vacation simply because those benefits, like the medical are negotiated items in your CBA. And because those benefits were negotiated into our STANDALONE CBA in 2014, and your benefits were stolen in the bankruptcy process, that, good sir, is not the fault of anybody at LUS. So not being on equal footing, that is the fault of the company, not LUS. And trying to blame us simply because the company didn't see fit to equalize the LAA folks up to our levels of the afforementioned benefits, well thats just childish. The LUS folks didn't take anything away from you. We brought our CBA to the merger just like you did. And in those CBA's are te benefits you want to be equalized. They will be with a JCBA. Just like the medical issue will be a moot point when the JCBA is finaliazed. I think you just have a case of "Benefit Envy"

 

[NYer]

Again with the mischaracterization.
AA's medical is far from crappy.
When I compare the AA medical to other friends of mine that work for Fortune 500 companies, our medical is good, better than most.

LUS medical is not a $550 gain for me. The difference, as I've pointed out many times before , is less than a dollar a day as a single parent.
You're going to have to come to realize everyone is not married with kids, in fact , there may actually be a majority without a spouse and kids that are still eligible for medical coverage, given the demographic of the work group, but you keep spouting how it will affect one demographic of the workgroup as if it is all of us, it is not.

I noticed you made no mention of how the Holidays , Holiday pay, overtime, sick time, vacation is not equal as you pointed out how everyone got the same raise. The benefits are not equal.
So lets talk about how LAA will be made whole for the loss of revenue they've had in those areas I just mentioned, or will going to LAA medical be called a wash because you will then take a $550 a month cut, others, many others, will take much less of cut, at the end of the day, we will then, finally, all be on equal footing on every level, we currently are not.

The frustrations expressed here are another example of how the lack of information is pushing the two sides apart rather than bring us together and raising frustration and anxiety levels on the LAA side.

This process was destined to take a long time simply because of the nature of the talks. There are two groups trying to improve their position and gain what was lost in the past.

On the LUS side, they actually had to sit on the sidelines during the BK while their management tried to woo us. They couldn't finish their negotiations because their management team was busy with us. Then after the merger they rushed a deal so we could get started on the JCBA. They still haven't been able to finish what they started even before the AMR BK.

Now again, because of a lack of information, the LAA side can't believe it's taking this long just to give us holidays and sick days. It's like they don't realize there are hundreds of other details to work out. We're told it's because the Company is stalling or the IAM is stalling. it's not because this is hard and detailed. We were even told we could have a TA by the end of the month if the airline fulfills its promise.

That's the reason why I believe the TA will not be well received. There seems to be no expectation of the changes on tbe LAA side. The feeling is we're bigger and our language is better so we'll keep it. That's not going to happen either, what do you believe the reaction will be?

 

[ATD]

The new AA management wants the LUS scope.
If we are unwilling to compromise we will be in negotiations for a long time.
The question we should be asking to our inept NC?
What does the union want for giving up the AA scope?.
It is going to happen. I am not confident in our NC that we will get the value of that concession, for fleet or maintenance.
My source on the company side tells me that our NC is not very well versed on what they want.
Making it very easy for management in these negotiations.

 

[WeAAsles]

The new AA management wants the LUS scope.
If we are unwilling to compromise we will be in negotiations for a long time.
The question we should be asking to our inept NC?
What does the union want for giving up the AA scope?.
It is going to happen. I am not confident in our NC that we will get the value of that concession, for fleet or maintenance.
My source on the company side tells me that our NC is not very well versed on what they want.
Making it very easy for management in these negotiations.

OK whoa wait a minute here. Your source in the talks is MANAGEMENT?

So you really want/expect us to take the word of people who are being paid to make sure we get as little as possible?

I DON’T listen to MANAGEMENT when it comes to my Negotiations.

Holy Crap Bro.

 

[ATD]

Weasy,
Let me tell you something about people, you have the CEO,vps,directors, managers and then the people pushed around by this management That are very credible and honest. So Obviously you just see union and management that is very sad.
From your posts you seem a little more intelligent then that..
I guess we should not judge a book by its cover but in your case it is by your posts..

 

[charlie Brown]

The new AA management wants the LUS scope.
If we are unwilling to compromise we will be in negotiations for a long time.
The question we should be asking to our inept NC?
What does the union want for giving up the AA scope?.
It is going to happen. I am not confident in our NC that we will get the value of that concession, for fleet or maintenance.
My source on the company side tells me that our NC is not very well versed on what they want.
Making it very easy for management in these negotiations.

What???
Management wants LUS scope for fleet instead of the LAA scope?? Ok deal!! We will accept the LUS scope of 7 flights a week, no problem.
I’m not sure what you are referring to, I believe you are speaking of the mechanics, because I can assure you that management is not wanting to LUS scope language of 7 flights a week for fleet.

 

[bob@las-AA]

With all this chit-chat, it sounds like we are close to a deal.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weasy,
Let me tell you something about people, you have the CEO,vps,directors, managers and then the people pushed around by this management That are very credible and honest. So Obviously you just see union and management that is very sad.
From your posts you seem a little more intelligent then that..
I guess we should not judge a book by its cover but in your case it is by your posts..

ATD look at how you wrote your piece. You essentially said you trust this friend of yours in Management and that all of our Negotiatiors are a bunch of goofballs.

You’re also compromised in your obvious disdain for the group that’s in office now and are a supporter of the old TWU regime so you come off as compromised on the subject.

I also assume now that the Gary and Sito info you got was also from your Management friend.

And maybe it’s you who’s being naive not to realize they’re feeding you to gauge a particular reaction. I think you should be smarter than that.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez,

ANY increase to the insurance cost is a LOSS to the LUS folks. It doesn't matter that everybody, that includes LAA, received a raise last August or not. If we are forced into the crappy medical that AA wants us in, it is a $550 a month loss for me. Where as if we keep the LUS medical it is a $550 gain for LAA folks that have family coverage on the LUS 80% plan. Yes in August of 2016, everybody received a raise that equated to roughly $480 a paycheck. Those at LAA got the same raise. With the LAA medical, that raise is gone. My cost would be roughly with ALL insurances, dental and vision included, close to $400 a check. So after taxes, maybe I get around $35-$40 from that raise. Suddenly that raise isn't a raise at all now is it. While those of you at LAA that already had the higher cost health care enjoy ALL of that raise. Do you see the difference now? Why wouldn't anybody at LAA want an extra $550 a month? I'll say it again, most LAA have Stockholm Symdrome when it comes to the medical issue. I know you are not advocating for or even suggesting that the LUS folks be forced into the higher cost medical. I am just trying to point out that with that raise if all of Fleet Service are forced into the higher medical in a JCBA, that raise was a smoke screen.

Irish I do understand everything you’re saying but I also still do believe ATD that this issue has now passed and a deal has been Negotiated?

Although I don’t like ATD’s sources I will respect him for divulging who they are.

You need to wait and see what the finished product is they came up with before formulating the worst in your mind. This will be a huge enough topic for your side to discuss.

 

[ATD]

I am not a supporter of the old twu regime. I was trying to equate GP path to the staff was just like theirs..lets see if GP tones his rhetoric down.
My info on Sito and Gary came from the union minions that do not particularly like them so they could be tainted but I respect these sources .
I stand by my posts on any of the info given.

It is going to happen. I am not confident in our NC that we will get the value of that concession, for fleet or maintenance. I shold have said concessions, LUS giving up medical which affects fleet and maintenance giving up work, these concessions have a huge value that touch both sides, that is what I was referring to.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

It would effect Fleet, Mechanic and Related and Maintenance Instructors

 

[WeAAsles]

I am not a supporter of the old twu regime. I was trying to equate GP path to the staff was just like theirs..lets see if GP tones his rhetoric down.
My info on Sito and Gary came from the union minions that do not particularly like them so they could be tainted but I respect these sources .
I stand by my posts on any of the info given.

It is going to happen. I am not confident in our NC that we will get the value of that concession, for fleet or maintenance. I shold have said concessions, LUS giving up medical which affects fleet and maintenance giving up work, these concessions have a huge value that touch both sides, that is what I was referring to.

Ok ATD I have to admit I’m enjoying the rhetoric and militancy of the TWU now at least somewhat. The old TWU came across as a group of pansy asses to me. Why should I want to bother with my Union if they act like any other Business or a GD Social Club. That just doesn’t fit what I want. And I’m a complete realist.

And I don’t hate Management either but they are going to slant their opinions to their point of view that the Union Negotiators aren’t just falling in line to what they want and I’m sure that frustrates them too to some degree.

Can you be a little more specific on what concessions you think are going to be presented to the two groups separately? It’s a little confusing if you don’t specify Fleet or Maintenance.

And I believe Charlie Brown in there’s no way I see the 7 Flights for Scope come to my desk. There’s a no from me. I want to get some peeps back home.

 

[Traymark]

I think you just have a case of "Benefit Envy"

Nope, just pointing out facts. Here's another one: pay is also negotiated in the CBA, yet they changed it outside of the CBA, they should have made the benefits equal too.
No worries, LAA med for all very soon.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

With your attitude you can KMA ,all you care about is yourself and not the reality that has transpired.

 

[WeAAsles]

Nope, just pointing out facts. Here's another one: pay is also negotiated in the CBA, yet they changed it outside of the CBA, they should have made the benefits equal too.
No worries, LAA med for all very soon.

Man is it wonderful to watch people who are all going to be working together soon bash each other for $$Money$$

I mean really.

Can I get some Eastern, Pan Am and TWA guys here and I can point the finger at those Blue Collar Bastards as well?

C’mon where the hell are ya?