JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

When the TA’s are voted on:

Fleet 72% Yes vote
AMT 58% Yes vote

Have a nice day.

Edit: Slap an off the hook buyout or great signing bonus in there and:

Fleet 92% Yes vote
AMT 83% Yes vote

Still have a nice day.

Weez won’t this be your second ratification vote in your career? Only other was 2001 since you sat out 1995 and the 2003 RPA? Not counting BK agreement since that vote was largely symbolic and abrogation S1113 would have prevailed.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez won’t this be your second ratification vote in your career? Only other was 2001 since you sat out 1995 and the 2003 RPA? Not counting BK agreement since that vote was largely symbolic and abrogation S1113 would have prevailed.

Josh

Yes.

 

[NYer]

NY'er, as I have stated about the outsourcing numbers, I honestly expect the same with the medical as well. I don't see them going full blown LUS medical, and I don't see them going full blown LAA medical. I see them meeting somewhere in the middle just like the outsourcing numbers i talked about earlier on. If anyones cost to rise for medical monthly, for cost out of pocket and yearly maxes it will be a concession to one side or the other. All raises given thus far has nothing to do with medical, and had everything to do with working each others metals, so don't let anyone tell you that that is an offset for the medical. Also someone posted that a bonus will offset it, it will not, a bonus is only a one time payout (usually used to buy into something) and the concessions of the changes in medical are on ongoing cost to the employees that will just continue to grow in the future, and for some with a lot of medical issues (usually the older crowds) it can be too costly that no bonus comes close to making up for it. I would hope that this asso. would fight like crazy to keep the LUS medical as it has been saved thru 2 BK's.
Not putting words in CB's mouth, but I do think he and I had a personal discussion not long ago and he said something about the medical will not be LUS or LAA that there will be changes, but he did not say the LUS medical was history as ATD is hearing. We will all see in the end. If they could keep the LUS medical that would be industry leading for medical aside from UPS's medical. If closer to the LAA medical not so sure if that would be industry leading.
The emotions will remain high, until the members get fully updated with all details, and then it might very well get even more emotional after they get the full blunt of changes coming to both sides. JMO.

There may very well be some kind of incentive for the IAM losing their current Medical but if it is just given to them, then the TWU Members will want the same because we also lost our medical. (the fact we received Equity, in part, because of that loss will be hard to convey). If it is given to everyone then the IAM Members will have beef because it won't seem like compensation for that loss. That piece may be interesting.

I don't believe there will be a compromise on the medical, to me, it seems it will either stay as it is (unlikely) or everyone will get the current LAA plans. The reason for that conclusion is because all the other unions were forced or accepted the current LAA medical with the argument from the Company in BK and subsequent negotiations that their intent was to have everyone in the same plans. If they allow another plan to exist, that will open those issues with all the other work groups at a time when it is almost universally accepted this is what we have. That scenario doesn't seem likely.

The term "industry-leading" is being nuanced to be within the compensation and scope and not necessarily in each item of the CBA, as has been expected by many, many Members. There are some that are also trying to convince everyone that "industry-leading" only pertains to the total value of the JCBA and we could lose other things but still remain within their definition of "industry-leading."

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

My medical survived two bankruptcies, one JCBA and one Section 6, while EVERYONE else had different insurance. And the JCBA and Section 6 was with the current management.

They’ve had ample opportunity to take it and they didn’t even try.

Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

Also the LAA FAs didn’t make any issue out of LUS FAs getting the money for the insurance.

You are such a pessimist and this isn’t concessionary bargaining.

 

[737823]

My medical survived two bankruptcies, one JCBA and one Section 6, while EVERYONE else had different insurance. And the JCBA and Section 6 was with the current management.

They’ve had ample opportunity to take it and they didn’t even try.

Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

Also the LAA FAs didn’t make any issue out of LUS FAs getting the money for the insurance.

You are such a pessimist and this isn’t concessionary bargaining.

You expect the company to give you market base pay rates, which they have done. Medical costs are rising and workers across the private and public sector are paying an increased share of the costs, why should you be any different?

When pay rates are below market you all were quick to expect Delta+7% but you conveniently sing a different tune on employee health care contribution.

What do you want the same medical as the grand lodge gets?

Josh

 

[ATD]

All I can say at this time is that Sito worked out a deal behind closed doors with the twu present. LUS health plan will be gone.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Why is it a concern to a banker?

And yes I do since they gave the Pilots and Flight Attendants raises on more than one occasion outside of negotiations.

And we pay a percentage of the costs, so when costs increase we do pay more.

Our insurance is a lower cost to both the employee and the company vs the LAA plans, and it’s also better coverage.

 

[NYer]

My medical survived two bankruptcies, one JCBA and one Section 6, while EVERYONE else had different insurance. And the JCBA and Section 6 was with the current management.

They’ve had ample opportunity to take it and they didn’t even try.

Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

Also the LAA FAs didn’t make any issue out of LUS FAs getting the money for the insurance.

You are such a pessimist and this isn’t concessionary bargaining.

Not a pessimist, the pieces are in place and it is more likely than not it will not survive.

You've been fortunate to survive with the medical you currently have. Since then the industry has changed and has moved away from the rich medical plans we all had at one point or another. Also, the airline has prioritized the changing of the Medical with all other work groups so it seems unlikely they will turn away from that goal now that the final piece is in place.

If the NC and EC want to fight this for the next year or two, I'd support it because that means you guys get to keep it for a longer period of time. It also means we get to keep some of the language we'd hate to lose.

You get on my case, but I'm one of the few LAAers that understands why the IAM NC isn't running towards a JCBA and I'm not a proponent of them just leaving the medical on the table. However, it doesn't seem like that's a winning battle and I'd assume there is work being done to try and maximize in other areas or avoid cuts in scope because of the medical.

 

[WeAAsles]

All I can say at this time is that Sito worked out a deal behind closed doors with the twu present. LUS health plan will be gone.

I believe you. And that would mean another BIG issue is out of the way.

I suspect other issues have also been dealt with behind closed doors as well.

And for those paying attention note what ATD wrote “Sito worked out a deal” That doesn’t mean the LUS plans or costs were abandoned for free.

 

[swamt]

There may very well be some kind of incentive for the IAM losing their current Medical but if it is just given to them, then the TWU Members will want the same because we also lost our medical. (the fact we received Equity, in part, because of that loss will be hard to convey). If it is given to everyone then the IAM Members will have beef because it won't seem like compensation for that loss. That piece may be interesting.

I don't believe there will be a compromise on the medical, to me, it seems it will either stay as it is (unlikely) or everyone will get the current LAA plans. The reason for that conclusion is because all the other unions were forced or accepted the current LAA medical with the argument from the Company in BK and subsequent negotiations that their intent was to have everyone in the same plans. If they allow another plan to exist, that will open those issues with all the other work groups at a time when it is almost universally accepted this is what we have. That scenario doesn't seem likely.

The term "industry-leading" is being nuanced to be within the compensation and scope and not necessarily in each item of the CBA, as has been expected by many, many Members. There are some that are also trying to convince everyone that "industry-leading" only pertains to the total value of the JCBA and we could lose other things but still remain within their definition of "industry-leading."

I know and agree NY'er. By claiming the total value route that is just ludicrous. Just as comparing AMT to A/C ratios. AA has say 10-20K members within their contract, SWA has maybe 3500. There is no way to fairly call the total value as an industry leading contract and they know this. Ex: if all airlines had the exact same numbers in all areas of the contract, 100% identicle contracts across the board and industry leading for both, who would have the ILC? Neither, they would both have ILC's, a tie for the top. But just by AA having so many more mechanics and groups within the contracts being compared and way more aircraft to be maintained AA will have a way more higher value cost of their contract and that does not make them ILC just because of the cost value, that just another way to get by the membership that they did not get them an ILC. There are 3 main groups all airlines and cargo carriers use to compare for ILC, and those 4 top areas are pay, scope, benefits and work rules and that's it.

All I can say at this time is that Sito worked out a deal behind closed doors with the twu present. LUS health plan will be gone.

Others have said the same. Hoping you guys can reap the full LUS medical but I do not expect it from this asso.

 

[swamt]

All I can say at this time is that Sito worked out a deal behind closed doors with the twu present. LUS health plan will be gone.

You just gotta love those behind closed door deals getting done with the industrial unions huh???

 

[737823]

Why is it a concern to a banker?

And yes I do since they gave the Pilots and Flight Attendants raises on more than one occasion outside of negotiations.

And we pay a percentage of the costs, so when costs increase we do pay more.

Our insurance is a lower cost to both the employee and the company vs the LAA plans, and it’s also better coverage.

Will the NC also give away IAMNPF? Isn’t that one of the IAM’s prized accomplishments? Will you get the same pension as the grand lodge? LAA 401K match is better and get greater contribution for overtime.

Josh

 

[cltrat]

Will you ever just stfu and stay out of other peoples business?

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

No he won’t and we all know he isn’t a banker and is AA management who hates the IAM, LUS, and TWA.

 

[WeAAsles]

********If the NC and EC want to fight this for the next year or two, I'd support it because that means you guys get to keep it for a longer period of time. It also means we get to keep some of the language we'd (***I’d***) hate to lose.*********

.

In other words YOU would be more than happy to see all of us stalled for 2 more years if YOU got to keep for awhile longer that OT and (Non Contractual) CS Policy. To the rest of us who could care less about those items harm.

So your thoughts are only with yourself and the individuals you feel will find the changes unpopular, NOT the totality of the Association.

You’re not much of a Unionist at all you know.

Oh and I guess I can now see how much you really care about those Commuters. NONE ZIP NIL NADA.