JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

Nothing personal to Brother Pantoja but no desire. If I did have a need though, with a will there’s always a way. Haven’t had the “need”

The rest of what you wrote is kind of weird and obsessive.

“Brother”? My understanding is he doesn’t work under a TWU agreement nor is he a TWU member.

Maybe if you transfer to FLL (LUS IAM) then he would be your Union Brother.

Josh

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Brother Pantoja is a good man, and great Unionist.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

“Brother”? My understanding is he doesn’t work under a TWU agreement nor is he a TWU member.

Maybe if you transfer to FLL (LUS IAM) then he would be your Union Brother.

Josh

Brother Pantoja and WeAAsles are both members of the Association, so they are brothers.

And Union Members often refer to each other as Brothers and Sisters, even if they arent in the same union.

 

[Tim Nelson]

NYer,
Typical "we live to fight another day", "we will get them next time", lay down and roll over defeatest attitude. Why? Why are you so eager to just take the scraps that the company wants to offer us? Especially since this company will "never lose money again", and we just had a billion dollar plus quarter.

Sorry pj but they already agreed to ax your medial. The only reason why you still have it is because they got nabbed into a new election and realize that they cuoldn't hose you before then. I can't help you from believing your dopey things you believe, and I really wish you were right about this one, but as soon as the election is over, they will be rolling over on your health care if they win. That's ok, you don't keep them accountable but I do and keep these elections going for the sake of democracy and accountability.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry pj but they already agreed to ax your medial. The only reason why you still have it is because they got nabbed into a new election and realize that they cuoldn't hose you before then. I can't help you from believing your dopey things you believe, and I really wish you were right about this one, but as soon as the election is over, they will be rolling over on your health care if they win. That's ok, you don't keep them accountable but I do and keep these elections going for the sake of democracy and accountability.

 

[Albert]

Wouldn't Mighty Mouse be more appropriate

 

[NYer]

NYer,

Please tell me why "there seems little chance we don't all end up with the same medical we currently have in LAA"? Why do you have that defeatest attitude towards the medical? I just don't understand it. And you are only partially correct as to how the NC and EC make decisions towards the negotioations. The EC brings back the proposals, and the actual NC goes over them, and then the NC not the EC will vote whether or not to bring a JCBA out for a vote.

It's not being defeatist, it is just seeing the landscape as it was and as it is. Everyone would love to have a better medical but just hoping for it doesn't make it a reality. We can ask for it, and I'm sure that is the plan, but seeing the landscape around us and knowing the TWU, APA, APFA and the CWA-IBT Association all have the same identical language on medical it seems unlikely for it to survive.

Some on these pages thought this was going to be an easy process, a short process and that frustration are manifesting itself in many becoming impatient. I'm not one of those and my assessment on the medical is based on other factors and not just "let's hurry up."

As far as the negotiations and what you wrote. Does it really make sense to have a Negotiating Committee, then creating an Executive Committee (for expedience) only to have their work go back to the Negotiating Committee for approval to be sent out? If that were the case, why create an extra layer and slow things down further. If indeed the NC makes the final decision, as you suggest, then why not let them deal with the process directly.

Seems unlikely in practice.

 

[NYer]

NYer,
Typical "we live to fight another day", "we will get them next time", lay down and roll over defeatest attitude. Why? Why are you so eager to just take the scraps that the company wants to offer us? Especially since this company will "never lose money again", and we just had a billion dollar plus quarter.

I'm not eager to take scraps, but if we make an assessment of what is possible or probable, then we can gauge the other areas where we may be able to extract a little more than we otherwise may have. It is about maximizing the process to gain as much as possible rather than extend the process where the industry could turn further away from us, the economy could tank or any other things could happen that may contribute to the available value disappearing.

 

[AANOTOK]

So, are the boys packing their bags, or will there be an extended stay...

 

[NYer]

I would like to add something about this medical issue. In this forum, myself and Charlie Brown were in a discussion about which medical they were trying to obtain at the table. The reason this convo. came up was because some rumors were flying that the NC was agreeing to drop the IAM medical and go with the LAA medical. Charlie Brown (he is on the NC and at the table) came in and answered my question and said; They are not just dropping the IAM medical and going with the LAA medical. He did relay that they were taking the LAA medical and making better adjustments and increases with it. In other words it told me that they were trying to come up with a medical plan that would end up somewhere in the middle of the two existing medicals at each carrier. So maybe it will end up as LAA plus advancements as well as LUS with decreases added in, somewhere in the middle. You can search the fleet thread for it but he did call out what they were trying to achieve at the table with the medical issues. FYI...

If they have already started conversations about alternatives then we may be a step closer to realizing the LAA will be everyone. The CWA-IBT agreed to the medical and also created a committee to seek alternatives. After some time, that process was scrapped and they also have the same LAA medical.

They have invested too much time in getting everyone into the same plan, thanks mostly because of the BK, to throw away that work when there is only one group left and it will create issues with all the other groups as their CBA's all come up for negotiations. It just doesn't seem logical for them change their stripes now that they are so close to their objective.

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but we'll see.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

If they have already started conversations about alternatives then we may be a step closer to realizing the LAA will be everyone. The CWA-IBT agreed to the medical and also created a committee to seek alternatives. After some time, that process was scrapped and they also have the same LAA medical.

They have invested too much time in getting everyone into the same plan, thanks mostly because of the BK, to throw away that work when there is only one group left and it will create issues with all the other groups as their CBA's all come up for negotiations. It just doesn't seem logical for them change their stripes now that they are so close to their objective.

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but we'll see.

What I cant understand is many of you are so willing to just let the company get what they want.

The IAM Medical survived two rounds of concessions in the first bankruptcy, it survived the concessions in the second bankruptcy (even when the mechanic and related CBA was abrogated the company didnt come after the medical, when they had the opportunity to do so), it survived the JCBA in 2008 with the US/HP merger and the Section 6 agreements of 2014.

So explain to me how only the IAM represented employees at US kept this medical during all of this why EVERY other unionized work group at US had higher costs medical?

This isnt concessionary bargaining anymore.

 

[Albert]

What I cant understand is many of you are so willing to just let the company get what they want.

The IAM Medical survived two rounds of concessions in the first bankruptcy, it survived the concessions in the second bankruptcy (even when the mechanic and related CBA was abrogated the company didnt come after the medical, when they had the opportunity to do so), it survived the JCBA in 2008 with the US/HP merger and the Section 6 agreements of 2014.

So explain to me how only the IAM represented employees at US kept this medical during all of this why EVERY other unionized work group at US had higher costs medical?

This isnt concessionary bargaining anymore.

The LAA guys have it in their head that we (LUS) were paid less to subsidize our medical. They seem so adamant I don't have the heart to tell them they are wrong

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

History at US was that US always followed UA, so when UA got a new CBA, US always got one after, and UA and US all made about the same.

Remember Parity Plus 1?

They averaged the pay of UA, AA, DL and NW and the US employees got the average plus 1% when Wolf was CEO, US employees all got some pretty good raises under that formula.

If you look at the old UA CBA, they got everything in the front, and gave away a lot in the back.

At US, (maintenance) had the best scope in the industry till chapter 11(s) hit.

And Fleet has very good scope unitl the HP/US merger when the HP side voted for more money and you all lost numerous stations.

So its a fallacy that US, Fleet and Maintenance made less than the other airines.

 

[WeAAsles]

What I cant understand is many of you are so willing to just let the company get what they want.

The IAM Medical survived two rounds of concessions in the first bankruptcy, it survived the concessions in the second bankruptcy (even when the mechanic and related CBA was abrogated the company didnt come after the medical, when they had the opportunity to do so), it survived the JCBA in 2008 with the US/HP merger and the Section 6 agreements of 2014.

So explain to me how only the IAM represented employees at US kept this medical during all of this why EVERY other unionized work group at US had higher costs medical?

This isnt concessionary bargaining anymore.

There are some out there who believe the Medical we have are separate outside plans. For some reason they can’t seem to grasp that AA and most Large Corporations are “Self Insured” They merely use the known names such as Aetna, Blue Cross and United Healthcare to administer the payments the Company is billed.

TWU pays again 21% of the cost and IAM pays far less. That can easily be Negotiated into any JCBA.

Some have also not seemed to notice that the APFA And CWA will be getting a 5.5% 401k Match but they just offered the Association a 9% Match.

Proof in the pudding? Proof that different groups can and do have different items and expenses both more and less in their contracts.

 

[NYer]

What I cant understand is many of you are so willing to just let the company get what they want.

The IAM Medical survived two rounds of concessions in the first bankruptcy, it survived the concessions in the second bankruptcy (even when the mechanic and related CBA was abrogated the company didnt come after the medical, when they had the opportunity to do so), it survived the JCBA in 2008 with the US/HP merger and the Section 6 agreements of 2014.

So explain to me how only the IAM represented employees at US kept this medical during all of this why EVERY other unionized work group at US had higher costs medical?

This isnt concessionary bargaining anymore.

Just because we're going over the probability of what may occur during these JCBA negotiations doesn't mean we're willing to just give it up.

They can fight, if they choose, and I'd hope they'd win. However, the probability of that is not in our favor.

It's not in our favor because the airline has gone through great lengths to have the same medical language in 4 of their current 5 unionized groups. The TWU, AOA, APFA and the CWA-IBT have practically the exact same language. It doesn't seem probable they would turn away from that with the IAM, while also making it an issue with every group once their negotiations begin.

If they get the IAM into the LAA medical it becomes a controlled cost and a controlled item for future negotiations.

The fact the IAM medical has survived before doesn't really give it any better chance of surviving now. The circumstances of those BK's, the AMR BK and these JCBA negotiations are different.