JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

If all the union groups in an airline and in the industry stuck together a created a goal for individual negotiations then maybe we could gain more rather than fighting not to lose what others have lost. As it stands, we tend to lose bit by bit because other unions have different priorities and they give up on something that may be important to another group. The airlines capitalize on this while we fight amongst each other and we've been in a battle of death by a thousand cuts because we don't change our methods, we just argue with each other.

If the other groups in the airline had different medical and didn't agree to be pushed into the same bathtub, then the fight for the Association to maintain the current IAM medical would be easier.

Who said it would be easy. But please stop discounting the fact that they did keep it multiple times under even far more difficult circumstances.

Again seriously please stop ignoring that fact.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok I deleted cause it wasn’t 14 times. He meant 2014. But these are the times that they negotiated at US and 3 of them were in Mediation I was informed.

99, 02, 03, 04, 05, 08 and 14

Through all of those talks they came out together.

NYer the NMB doesn’t FORCE you to do their bidding even if maybe they’re not happy that you’re not going along with their recommendations.

You’re not a slave to their whims.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i don't about the whole cart & horse thing..

when i said that i believe that some older fscs seek the stability of a signed contract instead of perpetual negotiations...the 'stability' part means 6 vc weeks or 9% 401k match are done & dusted in writing, guaranteed, and not seeing the company pull these compensation enhancements during negotiations - due to example, multiple terrorism attacks.

for instance, the nightmare scenario of these fscs. no TA...multiple terrorism attacks...business and tourism fall off a cliff and 6 proposed vc weeks now goes back to 5 proposed weeks and a 9% 401k match goes to 7%.

whether it's 5 or 6 contractual vc weeks, you can always say that bk trumps all.

you took it to explain to us that no labor contract guarantees stability, due to bk law. is the horse pulling a cart full of straw?

i find it outside of the sphere of reality that aa will file for bk in the near/medium future and that is why we ended up talking about dl. bk is a non-factor and shouldn't be factored in any current decision making.

[email protected] you wearing an 'aa' on your shirt when 9-11 occurred?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

 

[CremaDiLimone]

luckily for ole' winston, bob wasn't in his war cabinet

 

[WeAAsles]

[email protected] you wearing an 'aa' on your shirt when 9-11 occurred?

Bob was with Radio Shack near Grapevine Mall in 2001.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

stocking speak and spells?

 

[WeAAsles]

stocking speak and spells?

Repairing Walkie Talkies.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

copy...that calls for 100 above & beyond points

 

[NYer]

Ok I deleted cause it wasn’t 14 times. He meant 2014. But these are the times that they negotiated at US and 3 of them were in Mediation I was informed.

99, 02, 03, 04, 05, 08 and 14

Through all of those talks they came out together.

Let's use the 2002 TWA certifications as an example because it included the TWU and IAM in the NBM determination of representation for negotiations.

In that case, they had the TWU as the collective bargaining representative body for a combined group of "Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance and Fleet Service" under one certification.

The IAM was the certified collective bargaining representative for "Mechanics and Related (including Fleet Service)" under one certification, as well.

Under those certifications, the mediated negotiations could be with the collective as they were the certified representative for the combined groups.

Fast forward to April 2015, the NMB specifically certified the Fleet Association, the Mechanic Association, and the Stores Association. Those are three separate entities and could be separated in mediation since they each hold a separate certification for collective bargaining representation.

 

[737823]

Let's use the 2002 TWA certifications as an example because it included the TWU and IAM in the NBM determination of representation for negotiations.

In that case, they had the TWU as the collective bargaining representative body for a combined group of "Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance and Fleet Service" under one certification.

The IAM was the certified collective bargaining representative for "Mechanics and Related (including Fleet Service)" under one certification, as well.

Under those certifications, the mediated negotiations could be with the collective as they were the certified representative for the combined groups.

Fast forward to April 2015, the NMB specifically certified the Fleet Association, the Mechanic Association, and the Stores Association. Those are three separate entities and could be separated in mediation since they each hold a separate certification for collective bargaining representation.

Why with TWA did the IAM represented classifications to under the TWU agreement but this time they get to remain under the IAM USAIR CBA until a JCBA? TWA they went under AA TWU no prolonged JCBA, no nothing.

If LUS went under the LAA TWU language how many stations would be staffed?

Josh

 

[737823]

NYer when did the IAM TWA CBA get extinguished?

I know Kosher ruling was and is independent of the CBA in place at a given time.

Josh

 

[ALUS78]

Why is the TWU and the IAM handling grievances and etc, if they aren’t the certified representatives?

I pay the TWU and by de facto the TWU/IAM Association to represent ME. They should only be concerned about representing the groups who compensate them and not groups who have and compensate their own representatives to negotiate for them.

Have you ever seen any communication by any Union during their Contract talks mention worrying about what other groups might want if they were to secure something for their members?

Were Pilots concerned about Baggage Handlers when they negotiated their 401k formula? Should they be concerned about what we want? Of course not.

Weez the company is concern what it will have to pay other groups so it is considered throughout negotiations whether you like it or not

 

[P. REZ]

Let's use the 2002 TWA certifications as an example because it included the TWU and IAM in the NBM determination of representation for negotiations.

In that case, they had the TWU as the collective bargaining representative body for a combined group of "Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance and Fleet Service" under one certification.

The IAM was the certified collective bargaining representative for "Mechanics and Related (including Fleet Service)" under one certification, as well.

Under those certifications, the mediated negotiations could be with the collective as they were the certified representative for the combined groups.

Fast forward to April 2015, the NMB specifically certified the Fleet Association, the Mechanic Association, and the Stores Association. Those are three separate entities and could be separated in mediation since they each hold a separate certification for collective bargaining representation.

NYER,

Correct, our groups would negotiate at separate times at different locations as in 14 negotiations, however, we would not come out with full TA's until we all had TA's in our 14 talks.

P. Rez

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's use the 2002 TWA certifications as an example because it included the TWU and IAM in the NBM determination of representation for negotiations.

In that case, they had the TWU as the collective bargaining representative body for a combined group of "Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance and Fleet Service" under one certification.

The IAM was the certified collective bargaining representative for "Mechanics and Related (including Fleet Service)" under one certification, as well.

Under those certifications, the mediated negotiations could be with the collective as they were the certified representative for the combined groups.

Fast forward to April 2015, the NMB specifically certified the Fleet Association, the Mechanic Association, and the Stores Association. Those are three separate entities and could be separated in mediation since they each hold a separate certification for collective bargaining representation.

Wait a minute. You may have been misconstruing what I’ve been saying? The teams don’t Negotiate together now. They’re in the same building but they were in different rooms.

If it goes back in the future to the Negotiation committees and not the Executive Leadership of course it’s going to be separate because the issues are different somewhat.

But if one group concludes and reaches a deal they’re going to wait until all the groups are complete until they announce to the Membership that full TA’s have been reached.

No one group is going to leave another group behind.