JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

The Company in their video mentioned the term “System Furlough Protection” what that means is they will offer you a job somewhere in the system just not necessarily in the Station you’re in currently.

Now yes a buyout will help to mitigate movement but not offering at least a pre 65 Retiree Medical bridge of some type is going to cause less and less people to have an interest in accepting the offer.

That’s what I’ve already heard from members not 65 yet. (Financial Fear)

No one is interested in taking the Company Medical at FULL cost plus administrative fees prior to being able to apply for Medicare.

 

[WeAAsles]

Welcome back 700

Look, it’s been thrown around time and again how “ it survived this and that”

The rest of the story is:
It only survived because the peeps that had it
We’re the Lowest Paid in the industry by many multiples.
The lower cost health insurance was the one thing you got.

It’s no different than 2003 when we gave everything back to AA EXCEPT OUR PENSION.

They got that too in the end, sort of.

So it’s a $6500 cut for LUS
Ok
The pilots and flight attendants both agreed to go to the LAA health insurance

They both got increased 401k COBTRIBUTIONS for it,

This is not hard.

Make our 401k Contribution 12%.
Deal, everyone is made whole. Move along.

The Medical expense other groups are paying have nothing to do with why each group Pilot, FA and Agents have different 401k Match formulas.

PSA went with the AA Medical and they’re also at 5.5%

As far as what US Maintenance and Other were paid in wages, other compensation and productivity, I’ll just leave the link for you to do your own research.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Revenue&Related.html

 

[AANOTOK]

Putting odds on it if we give odds like NYer has that there’s “no way” it survives is just first incredibly rude for those who read here and maybe need and rely on that Medical as it is.

And second IMO it feeds right into the Company’s hands. It telegraphs to them what they feel the majority will go for and from there they can tailor a proposal that we will badger our Negotiators to accept.

They just did it in their videos BTW. They added a whole bunch of cash items in that they weren’t showing any interest in offering at the table with Alex and Sito. That was a shift off the Johnsen incident and they’re now feeling US out. (Read the Jetnet comments)

I have to also wonder how you and I might feel if the Company told us now that they’re raising our yearly Medical cost by $6000 (Worst case scenario) but they’re only offering us 24 cents an hour to pay for it? ($500)

I agree with most of what you say, but let’s look at a few of your comments. I stated that all LAA want LUS medical and gulfcoast, myself and others have said so here. If I or others don’t say “100% we will get it, some folks pounce. You yourself just stated odds are unfair to mention. Not only that, no one knows with 100% certainty.

Secondly, by discussion and Social media, the company can and does get a feel for what would pass. Always been that way, always will. What I completely disagree with you on is your comment “will badger our Negotiators to accept”. Whoa Nelly,
the company should never have the ability to “badger” trick, needle, or whatever our NC into something they don’t want or will cost our members so much money. (Examples of which you have given)
After all, this is one of the main holdups and now to be able to “badger” the NC to offer it is unacceptable. Even you yourself has criticized your fellow brothers for not having confidence in your Negotiators and that you gave them free reign and trusted them 100%.
If indeed AA swindled the NC to bring back for a vote, a TA without LUS medical in it, don’t you think it would be a disservice to their members.
To be honest, I’m surprised Watcher did not chastise you for leaving that open or it be a possibility.

Let’s say the above mention became reality and AA convinced the NC to bring back a TA without that language in it. Isn’t Democracy, Unionism part of that process. Each member has “A” vote. The votes are tallied and which ever has more votes (Yea or Nay) the members have spoken and the Majority wins.
That TA was presented by your NC, the members chose by a vote, that is the way it should be if you are true union...Democracy!

Your other two comments I can agree with and will even say I have read those Jetnet comments and have added mine which mirrors all the others.

Again, take this thing to section 6 is an option for our NC if the company refuses to leave it.

 

[AANOTOK]

Someone gets it and sees the big picture.

Actually Watcher, some of us see the big picture and more.

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree with most of what you say, but let’s look at a few of your comments. I stated that all LAA want LUS medical and gulfcoast, myself and others have said so here. If I or others don’t say “100% we will get it, some folks pounce. You yourself just stated odds are unfair to mention. Not only that, no one knows with 100% certainty.

Secondly, by discussion and Social media, the company can and does get a feel for what would pass. Always been that way, always will. What I completely disagree with you on is your comment “will badger our Negotiators to accept”. Whoa Nelly,
the company should never have the ability to “badger” trick, needle, or whatever our NC into something they don’t want or will cost our members so much money. (Examples of which you have given)
After all, this is one of the main holdups and now to be able to “badger” the NC to offer it is unacceptable. Even you yourself has criticized your fellow brothers for not having confidence in your Negotiators and that you gave them free reign and trusted them 100%.
If indeed AA swindled the NC to bring back for a vote, a TA without LUS medical in it, don’t you think it would be a disservice to their members.
To be honest, I’m surprised Watcher did not chastise you for leaving that open or it be a possibility.

Let’s say the above mention became reality and AA convinced the NC to bring back a TA without that language in it. Isn’t Democracy, Unionism part of that process. Each member has “A” vote. The votes are tallied and which ever has more votes (Yea or Nay) the members have spoken and the Majority wins.
That TA was presented by your NC, the members chose by a vote, that is the way it should be if you are true union...Democracy!

Your other two comments I can agree with and will even say I have read those Jetnet comments and have added mine which mirrors all the others.

Again, take this thing to section 6 is an option for our NC if the company refuses to leave it.

“If indeed AA swindled the NC to bring back for a vote, a TA with LUS medical in it, don’t you think it would be a disservice to their members.
To be honest, I’m surprised Watcher did not chastise you for leaving that open or it be a possibility.”

You kind of lost me a little. Did you mean the LAA Medical, not the LUS?

Anyway I’ve made my thoughts of a compromise cost somewhere in the middle pretty well known so I can’t exactly hide from that now.

And as far as badger. No I don’t like the thought that Members could conceivably badger our guys (and gal) through the fact of AA Negotiating directly with us and doing an end run.

Personally now I think the Association should put out what their proposal was to the Company a few weeks back as turnabout is absolutely fair play. Again most of it “IMO” wasn’t unreasonable. I do think it’s a huge mistake if they don’t even if there’s a lot left to be desired released by the Company TWICE now.

Eventually yes something should need to be released to us for a vote. If you’ve been reading any of my shots on swamt about there situation you’d know I absolutely feel that way. And then Democracy will decide the next move.

And I don’t think they’re going to go into Section 6 but then again I thought this crap would be done in 6 months too. (My vote pick)

 

[AANOTOK]

“If indeed AA swindled the NC to bring back for a vote, a TA with LUS medical in it, don’t you think it would be a disservice to their members.
To be honest, I’m surprised Watcher did not chastise you for leaving that open or it be a possibility.”

You kind of lost me a little. Did you mean the LAA Medical, not the LUS?

Anyway I’ve made my thoughts of a compromise cost somewhere in the middle pretty well known so I can’t exactly hide from that now.

And as far as badger. No I don’t like the thought that Members could conceivably badger our guys (and gal) through the fact of AA Negotiating directly with us and doing an end run.

Personally now I think the Association should put out what their proposal was to the Company a few weeks back as turnabout is absolutely fair play. Again most of it “IMO” wasn’t unreasonable. I do think it’s a huge mistake if they don’t even if there’s a lot left to be desired released by the Company TWICE now.

Eventually yes something should need to be released to us for a vote. If you’ve been reading any of my shots on swamt about there situation you’d know I absolutely feel that way. And then Democracy will decide the next move.

And I don’t think they’re going to go into Section 6 but then again I thought this crap would be done in 6 months too. (My vote pick)

Yes, you quoted me before I changed it I guess. If AA doesn’t allow the LUS medical to remain.

 

[WeAAsles]

Caught your Edit AANOTOK.

The Company proposal had the changeover to the AA Medical cost coming in Jan 2020. So ok one more year for the LUS peeps then if we accepted.

Now the question would have to be what’s in it for the LAA in that case for agreeing to pay higher than out Brothers and Sisters for another full year after this one?

Do we get an extra little something in our stocking for being boned for an extra year even after this one?

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, you quoted me before I changed it I guess. If AA doesn’t allow the LUS medical to remain.

You and I and everyone else at the end of the day are going to vote for ultimately what we think is best for us. Anyone that says otherwise has got it coming out of every hole in their body.

We all just have to have some integrity lines on what we won’t cross in heading for the life rafts if the ship has a leak.

 

[AANOTOK]

Caught your Edit AANOTOK.

The Company proposal had the changeover to the AA Medical cost coming in Jan 2020. So ok one more year for the LUS peeps then if we accepted.

Now the question would have to be what’s in it for the LAA in that case for agreeing to pay higher than out Brothers and Sisters for another full year after this one?

Do we get an extra little something in our stocking for being boned for an extra year even after this one?

I really don’t know, W. There are a few “Million Dollar” questions. What I do know is I’m glad I’m not on the NC.

 

[gulfcoast1]

gulfcoast don’t let anyone convince you that you shouldn’t have the better/ lower cost medical.

Of course everything from the Medical to improvements in wages, retirement and other compensation areas including jobs has a price to the Company. But the Company to me can’t get away from the fact that they “chose” to divert 10 BILLION dollars since the merger to buying back AAL shares. And why I’m really not interested in striking any concessionary deal myself.

A birdy told me the cost to do away with the IAM Medical for their members comes out to a savings of 15 Million for the Company. And to extend the IAM medical out to all Association Members is a cost to the Company of 39 Million.

Again Management and the BOD authorized TEN BILLION DOLLARS of the Airlines cash go to Wall Street.

I said as a full time employee I would like to have it.

 

[gulfcoast1]

I threw no jab.

Rehashing the reality of what it has survived.

Lots of posters on here don’t care about the LUS healthcare and pension.

They blame the IAM and it’s members for the lack of parity, it’s not any IAM members’ fault nor the IAM itself.

We’ve had two contracts since our last bankruptcy, unfortunately LAA TWU members are still under a Chapter 11 CBA.

Plenty of jabs towards the LUS people for what we negotiate and work under.

I threw no jabs. I said I understand why the IAM wants to keep it and as a Full Time employee I would like to have it. I want a great contract for all of us.

 

[WeAAsles]

I really don’t know, W. There are a few “Million Dollar” questions. What I do know is I’m glad I’m not on the NC.

Well if you noticed on the TWU side for Fleet there’s now only one man left standing from the original 6.

Tim (The Rock) Hughes.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

They blame the IAM and it’s members for the lack of parity, it’s not any IAM members’ fault nor the IAM itself.

Actually it is all the IAM's fault. They should have stepped aside after the merger and allowed the TWU to be the only union on the premises.

Like the TWU did when US merged with HP!

 

[gulfcoast1]

IAM side Catering needs to be kept and/or Freight and Mail needs to be added into all of their Hubs as replacements. Or I just honestly don’t understand the need to remove any of those jobs.

Deicing on the TWU side. Many of us have long memories of when that was a Aircraft Maintenance function and then was voted over to Fleet.

Is the Company expecting to find a quality Company to perform that seasonal work at a low cost? The US Job Market is tightening and eventually I don’t see who will be interested in staffing those positions?

Is it maybe also a liability issue that concerns Management? Pass the buck on that issue onto someone else like they have with Cabin and Cargo hold Security searches?

IAM side Catering needs to be kept and/or Freight and Mail needs to be added into all of their Hubs as replacements. Or I just honestly don’t understand the need to remove any of those jobs.

Deicing on the TWU side. Many of us have long memories of when that was a Aircraft Maintenance function and then was voted over to Fleet.

Is the Company expecting to find a quality Company to perform that seasonal work at a low cost? The US Job Market is tightening and eventually I don’t see who will be interested in staffing those positions?

Is it maybe also a liability issue that concerns Management? Pass the buck on that issue onto someone else like they have with Cabin and Cargo hold Security searches?

Maybe this is something Our Unions and the APA and APFA can work on together or at least enlist their support? They fly on the planes that are searched and deiced and I think they would want to make sure both are done properly.

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually it is all the IAM's fault. They should have stepped aside after the merger and allowed the TWU to be the only union on the premises.

Like the TWU did when US merged with HP!

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. Have it engraved on your tombstone along with 2003 and the Company never should have bought TWA as well.

Jeez sometimes it’s like a parrot who repeats curse words all the time. You just want to hit it in the head with a rock.