JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

Weez -- this is exactly why we have 401k's as opposed to pensions... the Companies know that a large percentage will NEVER collect on their match...
They have also eliminated the liabilities, and administrative costs associated with a Company pension plan, like our dad's and granddad's once enjoyed.
The 401k is the largest hoax to ever be perpetuated onto the American Workforce!

It was originally sold to workers as a "SUPPLEMENT" to the pensions. The Companies then slowly jerked the rug out, and ditched the pensions all together to appease shareholders.

Well if we know that 21% won’t take full advantage of the Match if it was only 4.5% how high would that percentage be if they were to go to 9%?

The way it looks to me if I’m right from the Company’s little blind cheat sheet is that they’ll put in 5% but if you want to get the full 9% you’ll have to go to 5% yourself and then add another 4%? (As I guess it to be)

So how many even with making a decent wage can afford that 9%?

That’s also another reason why I think if the Company really wants to buy out of the IAMPF it should pay more than what they’re offering since each percentage increase leaves a higher percentage of the workforce that won’t even maximize that value.

 

[WeAAsles]

A pension plan is a traditional or hybrid defined benefit plan. In 2015 one third of workers in a private-sector pension plan were in a cash-balance or other hybrid plan. Also, thirty seven percent of workers in private-sector pension plans in 2017 were in plans that were closed to new entrants. All but twelve percent of those workers are still earning benefits under their “frozen” plans.


http://www.pensionrights.org/public...tirement-participation-statistics#pensionplan

See: https://www.bls.gov/ncs/ebs/detailedprovisions/2015/ownership/private/ta...
and https://www.bls.gov/ncs/ebs/benefits/2017/ownership/private/table05a.pdf

 

[The Watcher]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/n...s-arent-saving-much-for-retirement-2018-03-02

 

[The Watcher]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattcarey/2017/06/05/5-ways-a-401k-isnt-as-good-as-a-pension/amp/

 

[The Watcher]

http://amp.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...the_401_k_think_it_s_been_a_huge_mistake.html

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Well if we know that 21% won’t take full advantage of the Match if it was only 4.5% how high would that percentage be if they were to go to 9%?

The way it looks to me if I’m right from the Company’s little blind cheat sheet is that they’ll put in 5% but if you want to get the full 9% you’ll have to go to 5% yourself and then add another 4%? (As I guess it to be)

So how many even with making a decent wage can afford that 9%?

That’s also another reason why I think if the Company really wants to buy out of the IAMPF it should pay more than what they’re offering since each percentage increase leaves a higher percentage of the workforce that won’t even maximize that value.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the CO prefers the 401k over the IAM Pension Plan... here's why...

With the IAMNPF -- the CO is contractually obligated to contribute to ALL (100%) of the members under the plan..

With the 401k -- the Company is only obligated to contribute when the member contributes. Which, as we have determined comprises a PERCENTAGE of the group, as opposed to 100% of the group.

Why not negotiate for something that you know probably won't even be fully realized as an employee compensation to begin with?

For the CO it's an f-ing no-brainier!

 

[737823]

Will Fidelity buy $1200 bottles of wine out of your 401K?

Josh

 

[The Watcher]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2008/03...n-probe-over-improper-gifts-from-brokers/amp/

 

[The Watcher]

https://www.stockbrokerfraudblog.co...lity-sees-customer-exodus-flagship-funds.html

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Weez-- Another reason Employers love 401k's... is that they can creatively make money for themselves with them.
There are corporate tax loopholes, and administrative fees that can be passed to the employee, etc.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/...g-companies-richer-at-the-expense-of-workers/

Watcher-- Your links show the underbelly that we don't get to see...

Think of it this way -- if you were Wall Street, and you had access to Trillions of American Workers' assets, and the Corporate Lobbied US Government is intentionally looking the other way, and your JOB is to make money... and it was all legal (wink-wink)... what would you do?

>SPIT<

 

[WeAAsles]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the CO prefers the 401k over the IAM Pension Plan... here's why...

With the IAMNPF -- the CO is contractually obligated to contribute to ALL (100%) of the members under the plan..

With the 401k -- the Company is only obligated to contribute when the member contributes. Which, as we have determined comprises a PERCENTAGE of the group, as opposed to 100% of the group.

Why not negotiate for something you you know probably won't even be fully realized as an employee compensation to begin with?

For the CO it's an f-ing no-brainier!

Well I’ve never wanted to look like I’m being a pitchman for the IAMPF because we have to be fair and admit that it has been showing economic difficulties lately and that last report was under an onfire Stock Market.

But the comment that the IAMPF is the Titanic is absolutely ridiculous and untrue. It “may” just be overpromising on the long term benefits it can truly deliver but that issue can be solved with a few early tweaks.

These SOB’s robbed us of our continuing Defined Benefit Pension through the Company and they know it. Yes using Bankruptcy simply as a tool to dump that obligation that they weren’t fully funding anyway should be criminal and unlawful but we live in a society that won’t punish that behavior so.

 

[The Watcher]

http://www.investmentnews.com/artic...-million-sanction-for-failing-to-detect-fraud

 

[The Watcher]

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20150120/FREE/150129994/fidelity-fined-350000-in-billing-snafu

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Well I’ve never wanted to look like I’m being a pitchman for the IAMPF because we have to be fair and admit that it has been showing economic difficulties lately and that last report was under an onfire Stock Market.

But the comment that the IAMPF is the Titanic is absolutely ridiculous and untrue. It “may” just be overpromising on the long term benefits it can truly deliver but that issue can be solved with a few early tweaks.

These SOB’s robbed us of our continuing Defined Benefit Pension through the Company and they know it. Yes using Bankruptcy simply as a tool to dump that obligation that they weren’t fully funding anyway should be criminal and unlawful but we live in a society that won’t punish that behavior so.

Weez-- It's all bigger than just the IAM Pension as we have seen... the IAM pension could be certainly improved upon, but that is up to the Membership...
I can tell you younger workers typically don't give a chit either way -- The problem is, those younger workers eventually become older workers, and you can't fix it at that point!

>SPIT<

 

[The Watcher]

http://www.hrmorning.com/yikes-2-blunders-earned-company-35-2-million-in-401k-fines/