JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

You warned us that you were not an athlete, and just proved it.
If the ball is hit over the back fence, that would be the backstop and a foul ball.
I'm sure you mean't a Home run which would be the left, center or right field fence.
I'm sure that's what you mean't.
You have probably never owned a Baseball Racket, have you?? 🙂

I sucked at playing Baseball. Basketball and Handball were my physical Sports. Don’t watch Sports on TV.

But yes I meant a Home Run.

 

[B737 driver]

Why? LGA is not even on the “possible” Nuclear list of places that could get bombed SIX years from now and TWO years after they start negotiating again where maybe they can get a few more on the permanent security list.

But I don’t want to get into this topic again cause usually even bringing it up starts the attack dogs nipping.

Why is that, is it not worth fighting for?

 

[WeAAsles]

Why is that, is it not worth fighting for?

driver c’mon man. I posted the language that tells you why.

LGA doesn’t have a possible expiration date.

 

[B737 driver]

driver c’mon man. I posted the language that tells you why.

LGA doesn’t have a possible expiration date.

Sorry I forgot.

 

[ALUS78]

driver c’mon man. I posted the language that tells you why.

LGA doesn’t have a possible expiration date.

Gotta be a reason for their concern,maybe they know something you dont.....nah what am I saying

 

[Kev3188]

And the EO absolutely should never be costed in to the deal that those left behind need to pay for.

As noted before, I agree, but if you're going to bake them into a T/A, it should be something that's ongoing (likethe annual occurrence I described earlier).

You look at the competition but you don’t obsess over them. Parker has an obsession with Delta and never stops talking about them.

Besides the Pilots Delta has no Unions so it’s not where I want us to place all of our focus.

Dispatchers are union too (PAFCA).

Parker's obsession likely comes from DL being the girl that got away. We also have the sort of "flexibile workforce" that CEO's dream of.

I guarantee the mediator said send it out or you sit.If it passes because people are just fed up, the language is not devastating.

Not to get all game theory here, but I'll bet on some level that's what the company is hoping for. Kinda like when they sit on grievances in the hope that people's confidence in the union will erode.

I know nothing about the United deal, but Parker said he would give that to you right now as a contract.

Of course he would; it's awful!

Actually his answer was more directed at Maintenance but there are quite a few “items” in that UAL Contract that I would jump on in a heartbeat.

Even all those Stations Tim has mentioned that have possible expiration dates still leaves them with 30 solid locations even if the Company pulled the Nuclear option on the rest of them in the future which they didn’t do when they had the chance.

I don't think that language is as strong as you think it is?

That said, even a theoretical 30 is a long drop from what you guys have now, and certainly a drop from what DL has. The current LOA should be the bar. Anything less is a concession.

I haven’t read enough on their current PT caps.

Their wages are solid, they have a better PS formula and they also have Penalty Hours and Paid Lunches.

I like their Contract personally. I expect better for ours (ILC) but they do have a good contract IMO.

Oh AND they work their Commuters too.

The caps are bad*, but the temp language is worse.

I'm with you on short hours and inclusive lunches; I think people tend to forget how valuable those are...but companies never do...

No reason not to work commuters, either, though UA doesn't work them everywhere yet.

*I'm specifically thinking of the FT commitment letter here...

 

[NYer]

Emotion takes over sometimes except now a days its captured on video makes it hard to take back.

Makes it hard to take back but sometimes runs are also taken or of context as time passes

Emotions is the biggest obstacle in getting the best possible deal. It also skews the debate.

 

[gulfcoast1]

Update

All the back and forth on MX and Fleet coming out together with a TA will eventually be proven or not. What really matters right now is that Dougie has drawn a line in the sand. Dougie is saying goodbye to 17% of Fleet/MX jobs, goodbye to LUS insurance and goodbye to the LUS pension and here is a 401k plan that will allow the company to pocket even more money off our backs.

We have a choice, stick together or get pummeled. It's that simple. We will choose our outcome in the weeks ahead.

P. Rez

You seem like a nice guy but reading this makes me mad because it comes across as hypocritical to me.

Yes! Let's stick together. That sounds great now please take your own advice. Don't tell me/we/us to stick together when the IAM negotiators cannot seem to be bothered by showing up at quarterly earnings meetings and showing up to town halls in your cities. With no negotiations scheduled you should have open schedules right? Even when you were in negotiations how hard was it to send another official from your local to say, "I am here for PRez, CB, etc. to ask when we are going to be offered the industry-leading contract you promised." How hard is that? Must be very hard because I have not seen a lot of fight outside of the negotiating room. I like to think there is fight going on there, but if you cannot show those of us who are on your side that you are fighting, then I have a hard time believing you are taking it seriously.

We are the easy part! You don't have to convince us you are fighting! We want you to fight. If you can't bother to show up to these public events then stop asking me to join you and fight. The least you could do is show up. Wait, the least you could do is answer my previous questions posted here on whether you will show up and and ask management at these events where our contract is.

I do not like to think Tim may be right but are IAM leaders keeping this from happening? Stop asking me to join you or fight or whatever if you cannot bother to show association members you are doing so.

This goes for the TWU presidents who do the same. As Weez mentioned we did not see the Fleet President in MIA show up at that town hall either.

Until I see this I will think an industry leading contract is not too high on any local president's list whether that be TWU or IAM.

And just to avoid any possible confusion. I am not saying rush and get us a bad contract. I am saying the negotiating team and all presidents, whether they are negotiating or not, should show up at these jetnet televised events and ask where our industry leading contract is. If I were an elected official for either union, I would not wait to see if one of my members might go and bring it up. Get it together and show us you mean business please.

 

[AANOTOK]

Kev,
Not only did he say that about United's contract, he said he would sign a contract giving us the same things you guys have right now. As W noted, he was probably speaking to the AMT's, he did not specify, but he was responding to one of them.

So another confusion. If I would have stood up and told Mr. Parker ok, I'll take it (Delta's) would he have said no, this is AMT only.

 

[AANOTOK]

Either I missed it or we haven't been informed. LUS has a one flight a day scope for the IAM and LAA has 17
I believe. What has the NC proposed and what did AA offer to keep our guys staffed?

 

[B737 driver]

As noted before, I agree, but if you're going to bake them into a T/A, it should be something that's ongoing (likethe annual occurrence I described earlier).



Dispatchers are union too (PAFCA).

Parker's obsession likely comes from DL being the girl that got away. We also have the sort of "flexibile workforce" that CEO's dream of.



Not to get all game theory here, but I'll bet on some level that's what the company is hoping for. Kinda like when they sit on grievances in the hope that people's confidence in the union will erode.



Of course he would; it's awful!



I don't think that language is as strong as you think it is?

That said, even a theoretical 30 is a long drop from what you guys have now, and certainly a drop from what DL has. The current LOA should be the bar. Anything less is a concession.



The caps are bad*, but the temp language is worse.

I'm with you on short hours and inclusive lunches; I think people tend to forget how valuable those are...but companies never do...

No reason not to work commuters, either, though UA doesn't work them everywhere yet.

*I'm specifically thinking of the FT commitment letter here...

Probably why they told our negotiating committee they the company were not paying anymore, the pay would be where United is, or about 1.5% above that. So the guys have to decide if that is good enough, since we were able to maintain our scope finally. If we say no, and we want more, they , SWA will want some scope changes, in exchange for more money. Of course our negotiating committee would say no, and we are back in the negotiating quagmire again, even though some people think that we would not.

 

[NYer]

This goes for the TWU presidents who do the same. As Weez mentioned we did not see the Fleet President in MIA show up at that town hall either.

Until I see this I will think an industry leading contract is not too high on any local president's list whether that be TWU or IAM.

On the TWU side, Local Presidents don't have jurisdiction over negotiations since that is an Association function. A Local President can be on the Negotiating Committee and 4 have been added to the Fleet NC a few weeks ago, but the NC doesn't actually sit opposite the airline negotiators that's up to the Executive Committee.

The Association has released several letters and has had direct contact with the airline Executives to drive home the points you've mentioned.

 

[NYer]

Kev,
Not only did he say that about United's contract, he said he would sign a contract giving us the same things you guys have right now. As W noted, he was probably speaking to the AMT's, he did not specify, but he was responding to one of them.

So another confusion. If I would have stood up and told Mr. Parker ok, I'll take it (Delta's) would he have said no, this is AMT only.

It would apply to Fleet as well.

 

[WeAAsles]

You seem like a nice guy but reading this makes me mad because it comes across as hypocritical to me.

Yes! Let's stick together. That sounds great now please take your own advice. Don't tell me/we/us to stick together when the IAM negotiators cannot seem to be bothered by showing up at quarterly earnings meetings and showing up to town halls in your cities. With no negotiations scheduled you should have open schedules right? Even when you were in negotiations how hard was it to send another official from your local to say, "I am here for PRez, CB, etc. to ask when we are going to be offered the industry-leading contract you promised." How hard is that? Must be very hard because I have not seen a lot of fight outside of the negotiating room. I like to think there is fight going on there, but IF you cannot show those of us who are on your side that you are fighting, then I have a hard time believing you are taking it seriously.

We are the easy part! You don't have to convince us you are fighting! We want you to fight. If you can't bother to show up to these public events then stop asking me to join you and fight. The least you could do is show up. Wait, the least you could do is answer my previous questions posted here on whether you will show up and and ask management at these events where our contract is.

I do not like to think Tim may be right but are IAM leaders keeping this from happening? Stop asking me to join you or fight or whatever if you cannot bother to show association members you are doing so.

This goes for the TWU presidents who do the same. As Weez mentioned we did not see the Fleet President in MIA show up at that town hall either.

Until I see this I will think an industry leading contract is not too high on any local president's list whether that be TWU or IAM.

In multiple LAA cities I’ve seen TWU reps both Fleet and Maintenance hammer both Parker and Isom. (Not TWU 568 Fleet MIA though)

And TWU has also engaged in multiple protests and Local Ad campaigns and TV News blasts.

 

[gulfcoast1]

On the TWU side, Local Presidents don't have jurisdiction over negotiations since that is an Association function. A Local President can be on the Negotiating Committee and 4 have been added to the Fleet NC a few weeks ago, but the NC doesn't actually sit opposite the airline negotiators that's up to the Executive Committee.

The Association has released several letters and has had direct contact with the airline Executives to drive home the points you've mentioned.

Really? I had no idea. Yes that was sarcasm. That is not what I said and since you seem to delight in splitting hairs I suggest you go back and read my post. I edited after you read it, but even before the edits it should have been clear.

I said I agreed with Weez that when they went to MIA, the MIA president should have stood up like a man and said something. The absence of the local president was pathetic. smh. smdh. But don't feel too bad. Other than the guys in DFW and TUL, challenging the company-on camera-regarding the lack of an industry leading contract does not seem to be high on the list of any local president-Negotiating Team or Not.