JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS
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Buck I too had to take a Junior mechanic position to get in the door. I had my ticket and four years of experience in the Air Force. On day one I realized there was something up when I saw one of the guys who hired in with me still had his paper license and was a full mechanic. I did my probation and then got someone in personnel to admit they randomly selected two victims to be junior mechanics from the people who started the day I did. I grieved it and got back pay. So it is obvious they played this game a lot back in the day as if I remember correctly you had military experience too.
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Starting 95 everyone was hired in as an SRP in Tulsa and also AFW no matter what experience you had. A friend of mine had 26 plus years experience as both an engine and aircraft mechanic and was hired as an SRP.
- Aug 20, 2002
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Yes, but I did not have the right experience to get my License, so I had to use Spartan. My point is that to get in the door, I had to take the Junior Mechanic slot.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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Nobody considers you a liar (well not me anyway). In fact I respect your integrity. That being said what does pay have to do with training? You think because Junior Mechanics were paid more they learned less?
Except......
this guy
this guy
and this guy
The point I think you are missing is that the TWU has allowed AA to use the Junior Mechanic position against licensed A&P mechanics. I don't really expect anyone to understand unless they were directly impacted by it. But I will say again that I do not set policy nor am I consulted. My opinion does not matter in the grand scope of things. It is just my opinion.
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DallasConehead
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Junior Mechanic, SRP, OSM whatever the flavor of the month,
Helps the company to relax hiring standards to get folks to do the work previously done by mechanics at higher pay rates. Helps the unskilled folks to learn a new skill and work their way up to eventually becoming a higher paid mechanic. Helps the union, they have more folks on payroll, more dues coming in.
Someone do me a favor and explain to me how these types of programs help the skilled mechanic?
Helps the company to relax hiring standards to get folks to do the work previously done by mechanics at higher pay rates. Helps the unskilled folks to learn a new skill and work their way up to eventually becoming a higher paid mechanic. Helps the union, they have more folks on payroll, more dues coming in.
Someone do me a favor and explain to me how these types of programs help the skilled mechanic?
Not sure of your point, but, I will tell you this. I was not going to take a more than 50% cut in pay to go from an experienced mechanic to a junior mechanic just to start at an airline. To go from $20 bucks an hour plus down to $9 bucks an hour and as a junior mechanic, I said no way AA. I held out from AA, NWA, UAL as well as Canadian Air, to accept SWA's offer of employment. They did not have the highest starting pay of any of the airlines (except AA) but they had the best job security out there hands down.
Long story short, AA was offering many years of experienced mechanics a job at AA as a junior mechanic with extremely low pay to start and I believe 8-10 years to top out. That's why you guys got all the non-experienced and just out of A and P school mechanics. And now I know this was all derived from the union allowing it to happen, Pathetic...
La Li Lu Le Lo
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- May 29, 2010
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I thought I made my point pretty clear.
I will recap.
Old guy suggested that the training received as a Junior Mechanic was lesser than that received during military service. When I asked him why his statement was that military service paid much less. I am paraphrasing of course.
I think he has nothing legitimate to say to differentiate the training so he is just making nonsensical statements.
I then asked him the question quoted below.
So I ask again, what does pay have to do with training.
How much more basic can I make it for you?
For the last time.... As a junior mechanic, Buck and I were expected to do AMT work along side full mechanics and sign off our work and basically do the same job for less money while we had the same or more experience as the guys that were making AMT money. While working in aviation in the military you make less than minimum wage but you do the job. This is the experience you document to get in the door at AA. The junior mechanic program that AA started for other work groups paid them the junior mechanic pay while they were basically watching AMTs do the job. We had a few assigned to the dock I was on and when they were able to be found never were asked or expected to touch a thing. One even tricked out a bicycle he stole while he was there. Completely different situation where coming in the door and put in a J.M. slot I was expected, since I had an A&P license to do the same job as a full AMT only for less money. Now you have baited and paraphrased and tried to turn this into something that it is not. If you claim you don't understand the above I can't help you. I'm tired of spending time on this issue. I'd rather discuss current issues and not spend any more time on this. The TWU used this program to further the careers and increase the wages of career cleaners, stock clerks and fleet service people who would never had taken their own initiative to get their license. I went to Spartan after the AF and there was no program at Tulsa Tech then. Now if that isn't enough information or if you don't understand then I can't help you. Don't quote this post and then ask some obscure question or make assumptions of what my intended words were. The point you refuse to recognize it there was NEVER any program to help AMTs such as making a path for us to flight engineer. It was all about a union dominated by fleet service clerks giving them a way to upgrade. I know you got sold out by the TWU and your job was outsourced. I have seen hundreds of my fellow AMTs laid off and have to relocate. But please remember that it was a fleet service clerk who was the local president at the time that sold you out and covered his own tail. He's now in plant maintenance. It surely wasn't my fault since not only did I not vote for Sirri, but I voted against the contract. Lots more than I wanted to type but I will not address this with you again. If I want to argue I'll do it on Facebook like everyone else.
I was only saying to you about my post as you included mine in your response as "and this guy".
Stay on point and scroll back if need be. But your response to me makes no sense what so ever.
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DallasConehead
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I can see the benefit to all if the company is actually using the program to get folks with no experience enough experience to be journeyman mechanics. But..... when the company uses the program to put guys with verifiable heavy experience just to save money... well.. thats intolerable and the bargaining representative should be all over it and correcting that practice, not condoning it.
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That's fine as long as there is no tuition reimbursement type deal that only applies to a select group.
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