It's official!

[jimntx]

 I still think of myself as a junior flight attendant.  After all, I will only have (officially) 13 years in January.  It would have been 14 last September, but for the 17 month furlough in 2003-2004.  Now, I find that under the TA I was to suddenly arrive at top of scale.  I'm still in astonishment over the fact that I am off reserve.  When I started in September, 2000 I got DFW right out of training, and there were people with almost 25 years still serving reserve at DFW-D.
 
I understand some of the junior people's reserve concerns, but I doubt anyone already on staff would be suddenly switched to straight reserve.  That would be a gradual switchover starting with the next batch of new hires.  And, serve straight reserve for only 1 year?  Ask some of the LUS flight attendants about being on straight reserve for multiple years before getting enough seniority to hold a line (or, I think they call them blockholders).  And, there was no guarantee that you would remain off reserve.  I understand that when US was in the process of shutting down the PIT f/a base, toward the end of that process, there were f/as with almost 30 years who were on straight reserve because they were the most junior f/as in the base.  Now, that's ugly.

 

[jimntx]

I meant to add that I also voted YES.  Because I fly #1 most of the time, and there was a return of lead f/a pay in the amount of $2.50/hr just for the S80, I stood to get a $10+/hr raise immediately upon ratification.  I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid.

 

[Hatu]

More from Terry Maxson:

One other thought: American management has every incentive to make peace with flight attendants. But if it backs away from the flight attendant MOU, it may be telling the other unions that they dont need to worry about their own MOUs, that in the end the company will cave. Thats probably not the message management wants to send. Thats the problem with going first you set the precedent, one way or the other.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/11/we-talk-more-about-the-rejection-of-the-flight-attendant-contract-at-american-airlines-and-us-airways.html/

 

[2ndGENAMT]

One of the negotiators put it to me this way:
 
The company is only concerned with the size of the pie (the total value of the contract). The company doesn't care how you go about slicing up that pie. That's APFA's job.
 
Some folks (particularly new hires close to the bottom of the pay scale, such as myself) feel that the largest slices of the pie are going to the most senior folks, who have already reached top scale, particularly intl ones who would be getting a fatter intl override and a big purser raise too, if you happen to be a purser. The junior folks were left asking, "what's in it for me?" and I could certainly empathize. Combine that with what sounds like a concessionary reserve system (they all hear the words "straight reserve for a year" and they panic) and all the negative rhetoric on social media, and you have new hires largely voting no.
 
With the negative balloting results at NYC and MIA, I guarantee you, the TA would have passed if it had more newhire support and was less engineered to get a "yes" vote from the most senior of the workgroup.
 
Of course I still voted yes, I'm not an idiot.

Didn't realize you were a low senior person as your posts led me to believe you have been around awhile..Best of Luck with your career if you stick around!!

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Thanks 2ndGen! Yep, I'm a youngin'

Brett Snyder weighs in: "AA Flight Attendants just screwed themselves"

http://crankyflier.com/2014/11/11/americans-flight-attendants-have-just-screwed-themselves/

 

[Art at ISP]

Up, it seems by your reply that I am not the small minded one.
 
No one said I was pissed at Doug, and I am not doubting he's an excellent money man, however, his skills at running an airline leave something to be desired when he clearly shows by actions and words his feelings toward employees and customers. It's not just profitability which counts, it is in many cases HOW you arrive at that profit. I'd say Richard Anderson could run rings around Doug.....
 
I have spoken with Doug on occasion, and he has been recorded making the statements I allude to. His attitude toward both customers and employees is a matter of record, both by words and action...
 
Let's leave it at that and remain civil...
 
 

 

[bigjets]

Doug Parker has a true disdain for employees and customers. He is the one who said that working for an airline is a job, not a career. He is also the one who tried to charge $2 for water on board.
It is no surprise that he doesn't want to give profit sharing to the rank and file. More for him and his executive team... He just doesn't believe it is necessary to have happy employees to have happy customers, thereby guaranteeing happy investors.
And for jimntx, I know Sparrowhawk well, and he and I have always advocated for the folks on the front line together....he was at my side during much of past 12 years since we started our little organization..
With regard to the FA group, I wish you all the best in arbitration, but fear you will indeed fare worse than you could have.
My best to you all.....

That's cool that you know DP personally and you know what DP is thinking or his motives.

I think giving the FAs an industry leading contract is a good show of faith to the employees. What I see is LG called DP and they both agreed that more money should go to the FAs. LG and DP saw that the hard 40 was a problem. DP romoved the hard 40, most saw as a good show of faith. People like you saw it he hates FAs, other saw it through their own greed, he gave on that he will give on other issues.

As far as executive bonuses go, that's every executive in every industry your self righteous NO vote will fix nothing except give the executives an additional $92m to split up. You really taught them a lesson.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Thanks 2ndGen! Yep, I'm a youngin'

Brett Snyder weighs in: "AA Flight Attendants just screwed themselves"

http://crankyflier.com/2014/11/11/americans-flight-attendants-have-just-screwed-themselves/

hardly an unbiased approach to what took place.

when something just got voted down, it is simply not realistic or acceptable to say that people were repeatedly told what the consequences were or that the TA met their needs.

If this contract was so much different, then APFA did a very poor job of communicating why it was different in ways that its members understood.

and it is absolutely true that NYC and MIA have been problematic for AA labor relations for years - but that is hardly a novelty that just appeared.

and it also is completely false to say that the TA incorporated a pay equivalent to what DL FAs earn in profit sharing. It simply did not and AA FAs knew it. to try to argue that it did when the tiny little morsel that AA included as profit sharing equivalent is smacking the FAs in the face.

and it is quite notable to read one of the comments to CF's post in saying that he flies DL because of a corporate contract but yet can't help but notice how happy DL FAs are because of their profit sharing.

I truly feel sorry for you AA FAs. there is no expectation of a better deal; that was clear. the great mistake is not that the FAs didn't approve the contract but that it was so complicated and different from other contracts and those differences were so poorly communicated because communication is not measured by what one says but how the message is received.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Hardly unbiased?

Snyder has far more credibility than you, sir.

And I can tell that bothers you, doesn't it?

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can feel free to argue who has credibility or not.

your peers, not me, voted down a contract that you have been trying to sell for weeks.

I told you weeks ago that profit sharing mattered. He acknowledges it was an issue.

he and you can both try to say that Laura and co. did a great job of communicating the ramifications of what happened but when the contract was shot down faster than the Russians can blow a 777 out of the sky, then someone has to be big enough to admit that APFA DID NOT communicate effectively whether you or CF want to believe it or not.

btw, regardless of who is at fault, AAL stock has lost the upward momentum relative to its peers since the voting results were released.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

Can you read what I posted earlier in this thread? I was the first to admit, as a member of APFA, we biffed the communication from the beginning. Unlike you, I can admit my shortcomings.

What really rustles your jimmies (I forget the expression you use when something chaps your butt... Is it "ices?" No, frosts! Yes!) what really frosts you is that Brett Snyder is an airline expert with a huge industry following with plenty of respect, and you pander to the tiny audience on these message boards with nary a fan to call your own, much less a single solitary iota of cred.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I couldn't give a frog's flying fat fanny what Brett has or doesn't have.

I told you weeks ago that profit sharing was an issue and your voters now have told you so.

If you believe that APFA screwed up in communicating the ramifications of what now happens, then you aren't in agreement with what he said.

Would you like to reread what he wrote or should I quote the statements he made about how well APFA did?

If you and I recognize APFA's failure, then we're on the same page... just don't try to lift him as a shining star in evaluating what went wrong. He expressed no willingness to admit that APFA screwed up.

You are a bigger man (or woman) than he. and I have absolutely been willing to admit I am wrong.

problem for you on this subject I was dead right on the issue before the voting ever finished.

are you big enough to admit that I was right?

and whether you are or are not mature enough to admit I was right, I still generally feel sorry for the predicament you find yourself in. I truly wish you well.

Why would I want anything less?

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I've admitted that I don't know how to properly combat misinformation in this new era of social media and every uninformed Dick having an ill-informed opinion on Facebook.
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

but you can't admit that I had a better pulse of the issues that mattered to AA FAs than APFA did? - or else they thought they could ignore those issues

doesn't matter whether you admit it or not. I understood the situation and the case you laid out but I don't vote.

and I still wish you well extricating yourself and your career from this situation.

 

[AirwAr]

Forgive me if I missed this in the previous 9 pages...but is there a feeling of this is a PMUS vs PMAA thing?  Did one group want this and the other didn't?