Is USAirways hostile takeover Of AA for Real?

[700UW]

Not correct TPG was the first DIP, then RSA stepped in and bid more, all the first chapter 11.

 

[diamondcutter]

Pitbull, I understand your hate and mistrust for management and agree!!! I don't understand why you are throwing the people you served under the bus. Consolidation is the only way to right size this industry. Being a mega carrier is the first step, then the battle with management begins. I wish your were still here to help with that battle.

 

[PITbull]

Not correct TPG was the first DIP, then RSA stepped in and bid more, all the first chapter 11.

Thanks 700. Thanks for coming on this Board. You remember as well, being that you were at the table with your union. Many times we met in the hall way with so much frustration with our individual union neogtiations.

I know that TPG was involved, cause they were involved with Dave Siegal, Glass and McKeen. I do remember TPG being the DIP for 2002 BK, and just can't remember when RSA stepped in and became in charge.The Bankruptcies seemed to overlap one another, and we awere continually in restructuring mode for 5 years, post 9/11.

From what I've read AMR is financing their own BK, which is quite different than U's BK. We had all this outside intervention with folks who had no idea what Labor was about and their dedication to the company. They destroyed that relationship.

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull, I understand your hate and mistrust for management and agree!!! I don't understand why you are throwing the people you served under the bus. Consolidation is the only way to right size this industry. Being a mega carrier is the first step, then the battle with management begins. I wish your were still here to help with that battle.

I would never hurt our group...ever. I am emotionally commited to them. I hear from the group all the time from every base.

I am on here because USAirways f/as don't need another possible merger to distrupt their own negotiations for a new T/A. They have been waiting for a decade sitting in concessionary agreements.

This to me is a thought up clever ruse by USAirways managment to hammer the f/as into rushing into another contract with scare, and intimidation tactics. Just as they did with us in every single bankruptcy...."hurry up and sign". And I believe AMR f/as are smart. Their union needs USAirways managment in the equation too, as their leverage to reach a compromise with AAFA. What other leverage do they have??? When I look at all the variables, a merger of this magnitude seems impossible. Seems to be that with all these different unions representing the groups, it will be tied up in litigation for many, many years. Not good for anyone. the airlines labor contracts,operate differently. A merger at this time will create much needless animosity and friction among labor...again not good for the airline, workers, or passengers.

I say this again, America West and USAirways East still, and after 6 years with the NLR Board mediator, can't settle the differences with managment and they are from the same f/a union.

Just plain craziness.

 

[700UW]

Thanks 700. Thanks for coming on this Board. You remember as well, being that you were at the table with your union. Many times we met in the hall way with so much frustration with our individual union neogtiations.

Pit,

It was always a pleasure to see you and chat with you, I wish we could have been under better circumstances and I always and still consider you a friend, our hallway chats to keep us appraised and updated on what was going on, especially when PH tried to undercut utility and you stopped that during BKI. Even when we were at the airport in DC and when you came to CLT, I was enjoyed your company and knowledge and you were the only labor leader that Glass feared.

What MF did to you to grab power only hurt the FAs and I dont think any of them to this day realized that.

 

[PITbull]

Pit,

It was always a pleasure to see you and chat with you, I wish we could have been under better circumstances and I always and still consider you a friend, our hallway chats to keep us appraised and updated on what was going on, especially when PH tried to undercut utility and you stopped that during BKI. Even when we were at the airport in DC and when you came to CLT, I was enjoyed your company and knowledge and you were the only labor leader that Glass feared.

What MF did to you to grab power only hurt the FAs and I dont think any of them to this day realized that.

What an experience 700; we will forever remember. You were great to, protecting your group as much as you could to save the work; with much passion, focus and energy.

Now, here we sit, still worried about the group. Hoping they can get even some of the improvements that were lost. As I said, I still hear from so many of them. F/as I don't even remember, some I never heard from when I was there.

 

[700UW]

I still get calls from people asking how to do this, how to do that, and what would you do, its funny.

Thanks for the kind words, I just wanted to do what I felt was right and stand up to the corporate tyranny and some of my fellow negotiating committee members who were willing to throw so many under the bus.

 

[diamondcutter]

I would never hurt our group...ever. I am emotionally commited to them. I hear from the group all the time from every base.

I am on here because USAirways f/as don't need another possible merger to distrupt their own negotiations for a new T/A. They have been waiting for a decade sitting in concessionary agreements.

This to me is a thought up clever ruse by USAirways managment to hammer the f/as into rushing into another contract with scare, and intimidation tactics. Just as they did with us in every single bankruptcy...."hurry up and sign". And I believe AMR f/as are smart. Their union needs USAirways managment in the equation to as their leverage to reach a compromise with AAFA. What other leverage do they have??? When I look at all the variables, a merger of this magnitude seems impossible. Seems to be that with all these different unions representing the groups, it will be tied up in litigation for many, many years. Not good for anyone. the airlines labor contracts,operate differently. A merger at this time will create much needless animosity and friction among labor...again not good for the airline, workers, or passengers.

I say this again, America West and USAirways East still, and after 6 years with the NLR Board mediator, can't settle the differences with managment and they are from the same f/a union.

Just plain craziness.

Understood, but Afa will be gone and we will be apafa and USAPA will begone. Parker will put no more cash into a new TA . He does not need one to merge. Look at the new UA and DL. They now have much larger market share. This merger will leapfrog them in terms of size and market share in certain regions. We need a bridge agreement to a new contract if and when we merger. When one certificate is reached we have 60 day, then the GAMES begin or go to final arbitration!

 

[diamondcutter]

I don't believe AA 's FA union to be naive and they had the balls to strike. We came close but did not.

 

[diamondcutter]

Sorry Pitbull for the choice of words.

 

[PITbull]

Excerpt from APFA Communications:

[sup]APFA has received a few questions about possible hurdles regarding a merger with US Airways. The following should help clarify some of those issues.
Q. What is the status of the US Airways flight attendant pension fund and how will that impact our pensions?

A. In 2004, US Airways - prior to the merger with America West Airlines - was in bankruptcy. During the Chapter 11 process in 2004, the pension plan for US Airways flight attendants and other applicable union employee groups was terminated and the pension plan was moved to the jurisdiction of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC).

This doesn’t have any bearing on American Airlines’ pensions because the PBGC will continue to oversee the former US Airways’ flight attendant pensions as they do today. AA flight attendants' pensions are frozen and therefore are not handled by the PBGC. They are separate from US Airways with or without a merger. Bottom line, the merger has no impact on either group’s pensions.[/sup]



[sup]Well I'll be damn.....the AAFA President has an inclination that USAirways unions are going to SUPPORT a frozen pension plan, she is wayyyyyyyyyyyy too NUTS!!![/sup]

[sup]There is a difference between a frozen pension and a terminated pension. A frozen pension just means there are no more accrual of service credits.. new hires aren't a part of the defined frozen pension plan. BUT, THE EXISTING FROZEN PENSION STILL HAS TO BE FUNDED!!!!!![/sup]

[sup]And by WHOM, pray tell???????????? In AAFA arrogance, do they really, really, really, really, think THEY are going to be the prevailing union???????????[/sup]

[sup]If you guys think that AA unions will be the prevailing unions at USAirways, you're drinking way too much koolaide from USAiways Tempe fountain. I'm sure with Doug Parker's history, it maybe even spiked with some booze.[/sup]

[sup]Doug Parker WILL NOT be accepting your frozen pensions, my friend. Their own employees at America West didn't have them. He will wait for YOUR pensions to get terminated in BK.That will be the terms of whatever they may work out with American management. If AA unions go against their own management, kiss the frozen pensions goodbye, and WELCOME to OUR world.[/sup]

[sup]PBGC, here YOU come.[/sup]

 

[BlueStar]

This Deutsche Bank analysis is from May 28[sup]th[/sup], the most comprehensive publicly available analysis I’ve seen with regards to a possible AMR/LCC merger.

This financial research is hosted by TWU…
(page 44 is where it begins to focus on the merger)
http://aa.twu.org/Li...ijQ=&tabid=1494

The small print on the last page of the article is a disclosure from Deutsche Bank and I have quoted it here…

“The information and opinions in this report were prepared by Deutsche Bank AG or one of its affiliates (collectively "Deutsche Bank"). The information herein is believed to be reliable and has been obtained from public sources believed to be reliable. Deutsche Bank makes no representation as to the accuracy or completeness of such information.

Deutsche Bank may engage in securities transactions, on a proprietary basis or otherwise, in a manner inconsistent with the view taken in this research report. In addition, others within Deutsche Bank, including strategists and sales staff, may take a view that is inconsistent with that taken in this research report.

Opinions, estimates and projections in this report constitute the current judgement of the author as of the date of this report. They do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Deutsche Bank and are subject to change without notice. Deutsche Bank has no obligation to update, modify or amend this report or to otherwise notify a recipient thereof in the event that any opinion, forecast or estimate set forth herein, changes or subsequently becomes inaccurate. Prices and availability of financial instruments are subject to change without notice. This report is provided for informational purposes only.

As a result of Deutsche Bank’s March 2010 acquisition of BHF-Bank AG, a security may be covered by more than one analyst within the Deutsche Bank group. Each of these analysts may use differing methodologies to value the security; as a result, the recommendations may differ and the price targets and estimates of each may vary widely.

In August 2009, Deutsche Bank instituted a new policy whereby analysts may choose not to set or maintain a target price of certain issuers under coverage with a Hold rating. In particular, this will typically occur for "Hold" rated stocks having a market cap smaller than most other companies in its

sector or region. We believe that such policy will allow us to make best use of our resources. Please visit our website at http://gm.db.com to determine the target price of any stock.

The financial instruments discussed in this report may not be suitable for all investors and investors must make their own informed investment decisions. Stock transactions can lead to losses as a result of price fluctuations and other factors. If a financial instrument is denominated in a currency other than an investor's currency, a change in exchange rates may adversely affect the investment. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. Deutsche Bank may with respect to securities covered by this report, sell to or buy from customers on a principal basis, and consider this report in deciding to trade on a proprietary basis.

Unless governing law provides otherwise, all transactions should be executed through the Deutsche Bank entity in the investor's home jurisdiction. In the U.S. this report is approved and/or distributed by Deutsche Bank Securities Inc., a member of the NYSE, the NASD, NFA and SIPC. In Germany this report is approved and/or communicated by Deutsche Bank AG Frankfurt authorized by the BaFin. In the United Kingdom this report is approved and/or communicated by Deutsche Bank AG London, a member of the London Stock Exchange and regulated by the Financial Services Authority for the conduct of investment business in the UK and authorized by the BaFin. This report is distributed in Hong Kong by Deutsche Bank AG, Hong Kong Branch, in Korea by Deutsche Securities Korea Co. This report is distributed in Singapore by Deutsche Bank AG, Singapore Branch, and recipients in Singapore of this report are to contact Deutsche Bank AG, Singapore Branch in respect of any matters arising from, or in connection with, this report. Where this report is issued or promulgated in Singapore to a person who is not an accredited investor, expert investor or institutional investor (as defined in the applicable Singapore laws and regulations), Deutsche Bank AG, Singapore Branch accepts legal responsibility to such person for the contents of this report. In Japan this report is approved and/or distributed by Deutsche Securities Inc. The information contained in this report does not constitute the provision of investment advice. In Australia, retail clients should obtain a copy of a Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) relating to any financial product referred to in this report and consider the PDS before making any decision about whether to acquire the product.

Deutsche Bank AG Johannesburg is incorporated in the Federal Republic of Germany (Branch Register Number in South Africa: 1998/003298/10). Additional information relative to securities, other financial products or issuers discussed in this report is available upon request. This report may not be reproduced, distributed or published by any person for any purpose without Deutsche Bank's prior written consent. Please cite source when quoting.

Copyright © 2012 Deutsche Bank AG”

 

[signals]

Excerpt from APFA Communications:

[sup]APFA has received a few questions about possible hurdles regarding a merger with US Airways. The following should help clarify some of those issues.
Q. What is the status of the US Airways flight attendant pension fund and how will that impact our pensions?

A. In 2004, US Airways - prior to the merger with America West Airlines - was in bankruptcy. During the Chapter 11 process in 2004, the pension plan for US Airways flight attendants and other applicable union employee groups was terminated and the pension plan was moved to the jurisdiction of the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC).

This doesn’t have any bearing on American Airlines’ pensions because the PBGC will continue to oversee the former US Airways’ flight attendant pensions as they do today. AA flight attendants' pensions are frozen and therefore are not handled by the PBGC. They are separate from US Airways with or without a merger. Bottom line, the merger has no impact on either group’s pensions.[/sup]



[sup]Well I'll be damn.....the AAFA President has an inclination that USAirways unions are going to SUPPORT a frozen pension plan, she is wayyyyyyyyyyyy too NUTS!!![/sup]

[sup]There is a difference between a frozen pension and a terminated pension. A frozen pension just means there are no more accrual of service credits.. new hires aren't a part of the defined frozen pension plan. BUT, THE EXISTING FROZEN PENSION STILL HAS TO BE FUNDED!!!!!![/sup]

[sup]And by WHOM, pray tell???????????? In AAFA arrogance, do they really, really, really, really, think THEY are going to be the prevailing union???????????[/sup]

[sup]If you guys think that AA unions will be the prevailing unions at USAirways, you're drinking way too much koolaide from USAiways Tempe fountain. I'm sure with Doug Parker's history, it maybe even spiked with some booze.[/sup]

[sup]Doug Parker WILL NOT be accepting your frozen pensions, my friend. Their own employees at America West didn't have them. He will wait for YOUR pensions to get terminated in BK.That will be the terms of whatever they may work out with American management. If AA unions go against their own management, kiss the frozen pensions goodbye, and WELCOME to OUR world.[/sup]

[sup]PBGC, here YOU come.[/sup]

Dug sounds like a car salesman. He'll tell you anything you want to hear so that you can drive that lemon off his lot. I told ya the merger kool ade is strong, and they even got AA drinking it.

Too bad when the kool ade wears off, you can't convince them that we told em so!

 

[xUT]

Dug sounds like a car salesman. He'll tell you anything you want to hear so that you can drive that lemon off his lot. I told ya the merger kool ade is strong, and they even got AA drinking it.

Too bad when the kool ade wears off, you can't convince them that we told em so!

IIRC, The Jim Jones Koolaide was terminal.
B) xUT

 

[Frank Szabo]

Dug sounds like a car salesman. He'll tell you anything you want to hear so that you can drive that lemon off his lot. I told ya the merger kool ade is strong, and they even got AA drinking it.

... snip

I'm not yet convinced a US/AA merger wasn't the intent at the outset.

AA's workers have been conditioned over time to believe anything the company doesn't want is good for them, hence the supposed "aversion" to the idea of a merger with US and the fast acceptance of Dougie's "terms" by the three AA unions. All get what they want and save face in the process leaving the workers, as usual, holding the bag.