Is USAirways hostile takeover Of AA for Real?

[700UW]

Its not a level playing field, do you understand that Wings?

When Senator Chuck from NY gets JetBlue slots at JFK for hundreds of millions for free, while US and all the other airlines paid for the slots they had in LGA and JFK to compete against the Legacy carriers, thats not a level playing field.

When Airbus gave B6 a sweet heart deal on planes while other airlines didnt, thats not a level playing field.

Shall I continue?

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, it is not a level playing field... but US couldn't find a way to use over 100 slots at LGA so they traded them away for far fewer from DL and a cash payment that doesn't come close to what other carriers were willing to pay for those slots.

 

[diamondcutter]

I guess this is all your management butt can think of, merger, merger, merger, cause you don't have the brains to think up a good sound, sustaining business plan..yet!

Did NW , CO, DL, WN, have a sustaining business? NO THE ALL MERGED. Try and make some sense.

 

[PITbull]

Did NW , CO, DL, WN, have a sustaining business? NO THE ALL MERGED. Try and make some sense.

US Airways has merged more than any other domestic airline I can think of.

USed more bankruptcies and resructuring plans post 9/11 than anyone I can think of.

One of two airlines who took the ATSB loan, post 9/11, along with the other carrier who was America West, and they ended up gobbling each other up.

Still no business plans for stability or sustainability, but what the hey....let's gobble up a legacy and try to get it on the "cheap" to see if maybe, just maybe we can convince everyone that this time... that'll work...

 

[diamondcutter]

US Airways has merged more than any other domestic airline I can think of.

USed more bankruptcies and resructuring plans post 9/11 than anyone I can think of.

One of two airlines who took the ATSB loan, post 9/11, along with the other carrier who was America West, and they ended up gobbling each other up.

Still no business plans for stability or sustainability, but what the hey....let's gobble up a legacy and try to get it on the "cheap" to see if maybe, just maybe we can convince everyone that this time... that'll work...

Still did not answer the question

 

[wings396]

Look into how many times Delta has merged before making that claim........

 

[A320 Driver]

That ain't going to happen without reregulating the airlines again...specifically in a consolidated industry with less competition. All the airlines are operating with basically the same labor costs...bottom of the barrel and can't squeeze anymore out of the employees, other than paying the company to come to work.

The next shoe to drop in a totally consolidated industry, with no more viable competition, will be the high fares for the flying public.
When it effects their pocketbook, and the politicians,they take major notice. That's when gov. oversight will have to balance the equation.

A pendulum swing...

Hmmm, I'm trying to follow your logic here. A totally consolidated industry? American, Delta, United, Jet Blue, Southwest, Spirit, Alaska, a HOST of regionals...this doesn't sound totally consolidated to me, sorry. And this list assumes LCC and AA merge.

I think you would have a hard time selling re-regulation. It's not just fares that become a concern, it's the level of service it just doesn't seem to be an issue. That can actually increase for mid-level cities across the US with a "Big 3". You don't have to have regulation to have a healthy airline industry. You just need to keep capacity in line with demand and control your costs. Something that LCC has become very good at (record profits in the second quarter).

Time will tell where this all goes. What needs regulating is oil speculation. The laws are in place but aren't being enforced. That more than anything seems to decide the overall health of the industry.

Just some thoughts...

Driver

 

[diamondcutter]

Hmmm, I'm trying to follow your logic here. A totally consolidated industry? American, Delta, United, Jet Blue, Southwest, Spirit, Alaska, a HOST of regionals...this doesn't sound totally consolidated to me, sorry. And this list assumes LCC and AA merge.

I think you would have a hard time selling re-regulation. It's not just fares that become a concern, it's the level of service it just doesn't seem to be an issue. That can actually increase for mid-level cities across the US with a "Big 3". You don't have to have regulation to have a healthy airline industry. You just need to keep capacity in line with demand and control your costs. Something that LCC has become very good at (record profits in the second quarter).

Time will tell where this all goes. What needs regulating is oil speculation. The laws are in place but aren't being enforced. That more than anything seems to decide the overall health of the industry.

Just some thoughts...

Driver

Well said. Cheers

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

AFA geniuses!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

AFA has managed to get themselves "parked" by the company until AA votes leaving our future up to a BK AA contract after our own TWICE BK contract.

Geniues!

 

[PITbull]

Hmmm, I'm trying to follow your logic here. A totally consolidated industry? American, Delta, United, Jet Blue, Southwest, Spirit, Alaska, a HOST of regionals...this doesn't sound totally consolidated to me, sorry. And this list assumes LCC and AA merge.

I think you would have a hard time selling re-regulation. It's not just fares that become a concern, it's the level of service it just doesn't seem to be an issue. That can actually increase for mid-level cities across the US with a "Big 3". You don't have to have regulation to have a healthy airline industry. You just need to keep capacity in line with demand and control your costs. Something that LCC has become very good at (record profits in the second quarter).

Time will tell where this all goes. What needs regulating is oil speculation. The laws are in place but aren't being enforced. That more than anything seems to decide the overall health of the industry.

Just some thoughts...

Driver

Well, you have DL buying an oil refinery. That's a good way to control costs on that front...just buy'em up.That gives DL some staying power.

The industry hasn't consolidated completely yet. As the legacies consolidate, the little regionals will have to follow suit; join up or cease to exist.

Again, I will say, when the industry has consolidated, the smaller carriers will just not be able to compete; same logic as trying to put up a lemonaide stand in front of the Coca cola Corporation trying to compete, by selling lemonaide. Coca cola has already done that gig, bigger and better.


Simple logic to follow, you just have to look into the crystall ball and see that its coming. Just as the airline managements have consolidated for the past 20-25 years; out of fear of not being able to compete; so will the smaller carriers, leaving just a hand full of airlines left.
At that point, FARES WILL RISE; along with fuel prices and as capacity shrinks the gov. will step in. There is no where to go with the labor costs.
. In order to keep the fares reasonable and stable, the gov. will come in and set the standards; just as it was before deregulation.

Just remember...I predicted this....I was saying that once the airlines have their hayday trying to run each other out of business, flying into bk to get their "free passes", and steal from their labor work force raping and pillaging from their contracts until all the carriers are competing against each other with the lowest labor costs in any industry...even way back when US Airways was mouthing off about consolidation is necessary or perish.
I was writing out to senior managment way back in 2002, and predicting, "have at it...your days our numbered, because this will only cause the gov. to come back in and regulate you greedy bastards."

Can't wait!

 

[PITbull]

AFA has managed to get themselves "parked" by the company until AA votes leaving our future up to a BK AA contract after our own TWICE BK contract.

Geniues!

Pretty ugly stuff coming down the pike. Its pitiful.

 

[psa8979]

I agree with PITbull . Re-regulation of the Industry by 2016 or early if their is FORCE MAJEURE ! Contracts and hire date for ALL !

 

[Toothy Grin]

Just remember...I predicted this....
Can't wait!

What kindof creep gets off on what will be an angst filled transition filled with hardship, turmoil and uncertainty?

Your "prediction" may have been made to management, but its been uttered way before this.... you have heard of the nwo you think these "people" just toss that word out and it means nothing? Go play mystic regurgitator somewhere else and recognize that consolidation under "the plan" is already a given, so don't waste your breath thinking that you only want whats best for this airline or that airline or whatever delusion your under. Believe it or not, the plan isn't going to consider your opinion...yes, I know, shocking isn't it. I hope you're able to get over that one.

Oh, and while I'm at it...your posts about afa are just useless. Seriously, why are you here? You're going on and on about why haven't they done this why haven't they done that. If you truly understood what was happening you would have never written any of your garbage. You weren't happy with the first effort, now afa is parked???, not you, and you're still not happy. You're not happy with US management (like wtfc) and what else are you not happy about? Doesn't take much apparently!

Btw, you want to play mystic...take a look at your avatar...and figure it out. It will help you greatly....

 

[johnny kat]

Toothy Grin :

PITbull, on 01 August 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Just remember...I predicted this....
Can't wait!


What kindof creep gets off on what will be an angst filled transition filled with hardship, turmoil and uncertainty?

Your "prediction" may have been made to management, but its been uttered way before this.... you have heard of the nwo you think these "people" just toss that word out and it means nothing? Go play mystic regurgitator somewhere else and recognize that consolidation under "the plan" is already a given, so don't waste your breath thinking that you only want whats best for this airline or that airline or whatever delusion your under. Believe it or not, the plan isn't going to consider your opinion...yes, I know, shocking isn't it. I hope you're able to get over that one.

Oh, and while I'm at it...your posts about afa are just useless. Seriously, why are you here? You're going on and on about why haven't they done this why haven't they done that. If you truly understood what was happening you would have never written any of your garbage. You weren't happy with the first effort, now afa is parked???, not you, and you're still not happy. You're not happy with US management (like wtfc) and what else are you not happy about? Doesn't take much apparently!

Btw, you want to play mystic...take a look at your avatar...and figure it out. It will help you greatly....
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Toothy,

We certainly have alot of folks that are always willing to offer their most professional opinions on this board, I mean just look at the amount of time Pittbull, world traveler and some others spend at the keyboard. If I spent as much time offering opinion as they do my grass would be two feet high, I would never have time to go to work or say hello to the neighbors...My point is Pittbull and others at one time had different titles at corp level or union level. So it is hard for them not to have strong opinions.

HOWEVER, if pitbull had to pack a travelpro and get up off the old duff (and all the others who offer opinion), drive to the airport and commute to work to fly the endless 4 day or the 3 back to back international trips I doubt they would have much success. The changes that everyone who is still here has had to endure would make these so called know-it-alls sit down on the jumpseat and cry. Especially on the 15th and 30th.

What all of the pontificators do not realize is that most of us still here have between 10 to 15 years to go. We have all come too far to just through in the towel and we are looking for a change. We have experienced the worst thanks to AFA and the old management. Make no mistake about it, if things were to repeat and that gun was put to our heads about accepting the last best offer or else, you had better believe the airline would be shut down. For poor pittbull to talk about how it all went down gets little sympathy from me because I have had to work under the crap conditions far too long.

At this point everyone I talk with could care less about AFA and would like to see a merger happen because it is the only way for this nightmare to be over because we all know if things turn out as bad as they have already we have clearly been through it before and really could care less if what ever name on the side of the airplane disappears. Who cares if it takes US ten more years to go belly up or for that matter AA or UA etc...We will all be closer and closer to retirement...and I doubt I would waste a second arguing with Pittbull about anything that happened 7 or 8 years ago. It is time to move on to the next phase.