Is USAirways hostile takeover Of AA for Real?

[WorldTraveler]

"she" also has a pulse of what a lot of US people want... whether she is active or not.

Most airline employees could care less about consolidation. Their interest is in their job security and their paycheck.
If US can pull off a merger and US' current employees can win, they are all for it.
But their skepticism is more than a little real given that US employees are no better off than they were post BK.

How is it better for us?

Synergies=job cuts.

While some Union Leaders jumped on board I dont think many asked their members how they felt. I'm not in favor of it, If USAIR is crapping all over the workers they currently have why should I think they will be any better with us?

bingo!

You do know that consolidation is the only way to right this industry!

and there is NO evidence that consolidation has been good for airline employees... other than to help limit capacity that MIGHT take some pressure off of employees in the future...
but it has yet to be seen that airline employees will benefit from consolidation....
as Bob notes, there have been far more jobs lost as capacity has been rationalized than employees have gained in extra wages and benefits.

There are a whole lot of moving parts, including bankruptcies, soaring oil prices, and a weak economy - but no one can honestly say that employees have - or will - benefit from consolidation.

 

[Flying low]

How is it better for us?

Synergies=job cuts.

While some Union Leaders jumped on board I dont think many asked their members how they felt. I'm not in favor of it, If USAIR is crapping all over the workers they currently have why should I think they will be any better with us?

Is it possible AA's unions jumped on board with USAIR just to try and play head games with AA's management, and now their to far in over their head? Once Parker announced it to the media, there was no way the unions could back down.

 

[PITbull]

I'm full of myself wow hello kettle. Im in the know a lot more than you think I am. I'm still here!! Again throwing your former co workers under the bus. What is your opinion on that? Again tell us why you left. How do know AA's plan did Horton give you a hoo. Give the US employees a break or better yet wish us go under! You'r arm must hurt from constantly patting yourself on the back Norma Rea. Contact first save it you and I know it will be the sam TA reworked if that. US does not need a TA for this merger so save it. Will you be happy if we are out of jobs? Can you answer that? Can you explain how consolidation is not good. I'm far more in the thick of it than you so don't assume. To say if " if I were on the property" save it you had your chance .

Com'on now....you don't think I know how knee deep in this S$%^ you are?????? you've been saying the same crap above for the entire time I was in office, and I mean years and years and years!!!!!! I know your MO by heart, my friend!

You are always running around with your head cut off like a chicken, screaming...we will be out of a job, we will be out of a job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....if you don't give us this, and that, and save the airline, blah, blah, blah,....

YOU GUYS TILL DON'T HAVE A BUSINESS PLAN YET!!!!!!!! Your just still trying to STEAL the cost savings from the employees at AA cause you just love, love, love those BK terms!.

The only folks that need saving is senior managment at US Airways!!!!!

 

[diamondcutter]

So WT are you saying DL and NW was not a good consolidation ? You'r flip flopping astounds many. Proceed with a lengthy reply.

 

[PITbull]

Is it possible AA's unions jumped on board with USAIR just to try and play head games with AA's management, and now their to far in over their head? Once Parker announced it to the media, there was no way the unions could back down.

And, thus, the reason for this thread in the first place...

It ain't over until the fat lady sings.....AA unions are not relegated by any stetch of anyone's imagination or inclination, to accept in part or whole anything from US Airways. There is no money on the table....and its just a bunch of hypotheticals from a bunch of noise makers.

 

[WorldTraveler]

So WT are you saying DL and NW was not a good consolidation ? You'r flip flopping astounds many. Proceed with a lengthy reply.

I have never said that DL and NW employees are doing better than they could have if their companies remained independent. The only statement I have made was that NW's board did not believe they could compete long-term given the lack of breadth NW's network had relative to UA's and UA's greater ability to feed its Pacific operation. I also said that NW needed a long-range twin that could fly from DTW to Asia to help economically build NW's presence from an inland hub - which they needed to compete with UA at ORD, as well as CO at EWR.

As far as the employees of both DL and NW, the chances are both would have done as they were doing as standalone companies. And, yes, DL has cut capacity and shrunk its payroll since the merger thru facility consolidation (moves for some if they wanted to keep their job) or voluntary programs.

UA has done the same thing w/ their merger w/ CO - to the extent that UA has resolved merger issues.

 

[diamondcutter]

Com'on now....you don't think I know how knee deep in this S$%^ you are?????? you've been saying the same crap above for the entire time I was in office, and I mean years and years and years!!!!!! I know your MO by heart, my friend!

You are always running around with your head cut off like a chicken, screaming...we will be out of a job, we will be out of a job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....if you don't give us this, and that, and save the airline, blah, blah, blah,....

YOU GUYS TILL DON'T HAVE A BUSINESS PLAN YET!!!!!!!! You guys are just still trying to STEAL the cost savings from the employees at AA.

the only folks that need saving is senior managment at US Airways!!!!!

That is an out an out lie read all my post from day 1 I've never responded to you when you were in office. I was never running around I was flying . Low blow to stoop to lies. I'm not management I'm an f/a and once held an AFA position . Blah blah blah ...how childish . I dont want to give back a damn Dime. Do your homework before you post about me. So I ask again ..do you hope we go under?

 

[wings396]

Well, I must be pretty damn important to ya...huh??? You keep following me around!

I must have some pretty important things to say now don't I? Hitting a nerve of yours, are we?????

Go pound salt off a cliff in a hurricane, pal!!!!!!!!

You mean nothing to me you washed up has been.
I find most of your rhetoric laughable, and most others have caught on to you as well. Stop living in the past with who you once were, as now you are nobody with any influence at all. Once I leave this industry, I won't give a rats arse what happens. You do get on my nerves, but you ain't hittin any.

 

[PITbull]

That is an out an out lie read all my post from day 1 I've never responded to you when you were in office. I was never running around I was flying . Low blow to stoop to lies. I'm not management I'm an f/a and once held an AFA position . Blah blah blah ...how childish . I dont want to give back a damn Dime. Do your homework before you post about me. So I ask again ..do you hope we go under?

You guys merge with AA and you will be giving back a hell of alot more than some damn dimes.

Do I hope you guys go under...what are you nutz???? What kind of question is that? That's a managment question?
Is U that desparate that the only salvation you have is yet another consolidation??????


What monies do you think US Airways is going to pay for the third largest carrier, pray tell??? Huh????? Labor has had nothing but living under concessionary contracts...AND DON'T SAY I BROUGHT THAT IN CAUSE THEN YOUR A LIAR! I WAS OPPOSED TO EVERY CONTRACT...AND WOULD RATHER HAVE THE AIRLINE LIQUIDATE, SPECIFICALLY AFTER THE SECOND BK, REDONE, REWORKED SO CALLED BUSINESS PLAN...NOTHING BUT COST SAVINGS FROM THE EMPLOYEES...AND THEY STILL CAN'T MAKE IT WORK AFTER 7 DAMN YEARS, AND THAT'S WITH TRYING TO MERGE A REGIONAL CARRIER LIKE AMERICA WEST, FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!

You're a f/a????? Not according to your written retorhic. I know the jargon, buddy. Held an AFA position... like what??? an AFA managment cronie???

 

[diamondcutter]

You guys merge with AA and you will be giving back a hell of alot more than some damn dimes.

Do I hope you guys go under...what are you nutz???? What kind of question is that? That's a managment question?
Is U that desparate that the only salvation you have is yet another consolidation??????


What monies do you think US Airways is going to pay for the third largest carrier, pray tell??? Huh????? Labor has had nothing but living under concessionary contracts...AND DON'T SAY I BROUGHT THAT IN CAUSE THEN YOUR A LIAR! I WAS OPPOSED TO EVERY CONTRACT...AND WOULD RATHER HAVE THE AIRLINE LIQUIDATE, SPECIFICALLY AFTER THE SECOND BK, REDONE, REWORKED SO CALLED BUSINESS PLAN...NOTHING BUT COST SAVINGS FROM THE EMPLOYEES...AND THEY STILL CAN'T MAKE IT WORK AFTER 7 DAMN YEARS, AND THAT'S WITH TRYING TO MERGE A REGIONAL CARRIER LIKE AMERICA WEST, FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!

You're a f/a????? Not according to your written retorhic. I know the jargon, buddy. Held an AFA position... like what??? an AFA managment cronie???

Yes I am an f/a an informed one. You no nothing of my jargon. Now you have been reduced to name calling . How pathetic !

 

[diamondcutter]

You guys merge with AA and you will be giving back a hell of alot more than some damn dimes.

Do I hope you guys go under...what are you nutz???? What kind of question is that? That's a managment question?
Is U that desparate that the only salvation you have is yet another consolidation??????


What monies do you think US Airways is going to pay for the third largest carrier, pray tell??? Huh????? Labor has had nothing but living under concessionary contracts...AND DON'T SAY I BROUGHT THAT IN CAUSE THEN YOUR A LIAR! I WAS OPPOSED TO EVERY CONTRACT...AND WOULD RATHER HAVE THE AIRLINE LIQUIDATE, SPECIFICALLY AFTER THE SECOND BK, REDONE, REWORKED SO CALLED BUSINESS PLAN...NOTHING BUT COST SAVINGS FROM THE EMPLOYEES...AND THEY STILL CAN'T MAKE IT WORK AFTER 7 DAMN YEARS, AND THAT'S WITH TRYING TO MERGE A REGIONAL CARRIER LIKE AMERICA WEST, FOR PETE'S SAKE!!!!

You're a f/a????? Not according to your written retorhic. I know the jargon, buddy. Held an AFA position... like what??? an AFA managment cronie???

You would have rather had the airline liquidate REALLY ? Thank all that is mighty you did not have the power to do that . selfish much? You have really gone off your rocker. Get back on your meds. You left yet you know EVERYTHING .

 

[Toothy Grin]

Oh STOP with the bleeding heart , blah, blah, blah!!!! Your telling me what you think is best for the AA and U employees....PLEASE.


The Labor groups at U are NOT on board with this.....THEY DO NOT WANT THIS MERGER WITH AA UNLESS THEY GET A CONTRACT FIRST!!!!!!!!!! Can't you just tell the truth, for cry'in out loud already!

You are so full of yourself that you don't even know what your own labor groups need. You want them on BOARD?????....give them their contract FIRST. That's what I would be doing if I were on the property. I hear from Labor every single day!!!!!

I won't ever let go of the past....because those who forget the past, end up repeating it again, and again. AA employees need to educate themselves on who you are an what kind of management they are dealing with!!!

Perhaps they already know and are USING ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!

Consolidation IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR AA.
A marriage maybe best for the senior managment folks at U, and that's because you guys could never get a business plan together other than BANKRUPTCY...twice! Cost savings obtained only on the employees back!!!!!

Have the decency to allow AA to go through this process without interference. You know damn well that U will never fund a frozen pension. AA Labor needs to pose this question to U S Airways, point blank...no beating around the merry bush!!!

Oh my. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Pitbull, the world of real business and finance is far different than you imagine. I cannot trade stocks in the same manner I once did, neither do businesses proceed with the same terms of protocol.

Since you know so much, then you know that finishing off the contract is actively in process and that only a fool would try to finish one specific item and then go onto the next. Life happens much faster now than it did in the 20th century...fewer people have to do more work or several jobs at the same time. Do you really believe that operating a business is any different?

 

[Toothy Grin]

IN CAUSE THEN YOUR A LIAR! I WAS OPPOSED TO EVERY CONTRACT...

No, the writer is not a liar. If you were opposed to every contract you were part and parcel to the problem. The problem being that you were not creative enough or flexible enough or smart enough to find a solution that worked for the Union and the company.

I know you don't like reading that, but THAT IS THE TRUTH!

ps- what kindof douchebag wants a company to liquidate just because ones egomania wasn't fed properly?

 

[Toothy Grin]

There are a whole lot of moving parts, including bankruptcies, soaring oil prices, and a weak economy - but no one can honestly say that employees have - or will - benefit from consolidation.

Good ops...the reason for consolidation is not to right the industry, thats just the same ol' lousy pr that spun to keep everyone happy. Also, I believe employees do benefit overall. This is not to say that downsizing wouldn't happen, but for the very senior there is more job security.

A large part of "the problem" is that there is this ongoing comparison of pre and post USair bankruptcy discussion. The old US is gone forever and you can keep looking under every rock for that same "high" you had back in the day, but it is over.

 

[WorldTraveler]

There is a difference between employees benefitting and the company benefitting. There is no doubt that DL and US are both stronger today because of their respective mergers. There is no evidence that US employees have benefitted from the merger - they still live under BK contracts which their mgmt has been more than happy to keep in place while labor fights among themselves... and in groups where the fighting has stopped, US still hasn't resolved the contracts. Thus, Pit is absolutely right that when US employees see their own company reward them for helping turn the company around, they might get a little more excited about AA - IF it meant the US employees would still benefit - and that is far from a given.

DL and NW both came out of BK with the capacity to be profitable and they were - you will remember that the merger was announced right before the 2008 financial crisis hit and yet DL and NW both managed to make the merger work but to become stronger as a whole.
But it doesn't change that DL and NW employees most likely could have improved on their own, without the merger. In a number of cases, DL has paid its employees a premium to the legacy industry to make the merger work - and those pay raises have been somewhat paid for by loss of jobs due to increased efficiencies or closure of duplicate facilities.

UA and WN are still mergers in progress - and so far there is no evidence that the combined workforce is benefitting. In FL's case, alot of FL people will benefit from WN wages but it will cost them significantly in turns of seniority in the process. WN employees have basically been told that the gravy train of growing pay raises has come to a stop and won't start up again. Combined UA employees are still a long ways from having joint contracts.

All four of the large US airlines that have merged over the past 10 years are stronger as airlines - and there is no doubt that the mergers achieved what the companies said they would. But it doesn't mean that mergers have produced gains for airline employees. Whatever little bit of growth in salaries has occurred has been offset by overall job cuts - and there is still no assurance that some of those salary progressions wouldn't have happened anyway.

Believing that a merger with AA will result in benefits for employees of US is a dangerous assumption that will likely never occur, esp. if US has to win AA by promising job protections that will result in cuts occurring among US employee ranks as efficiencies are rung out of the combined system. If only the very senior have greater security while throwing the bottom X percent overboard, it can hardly be argued that employees overall have benefitted. If mergers are done to divide employee groups, then what has been the point of having a union and acting like you would stick together for everyone's benefit?