Is This Poor "sportsmanship". . .

[Nightwatch]

Nightwatch you’re a liar to say you don't know many with two jobs or your totally out of touch with people you work with. How did you take a 35% cut in pay and it not effect your life style? You must be one of the e-board members who didn’t take a cut. Maybe you just live with your Mom still. Wake up your talking to the people who are working the second jobs here and there’s a lot more people doing the same thing. Why don’t you see the people in the auto manufacturing industry working second jobs. Craft unions !!!!! Why do you think cars are going back up in price and housing construction is stronger than ever. Because for the most part the people in the industrial unions are the only ones the economic recovery is passing by totally. Nightwatch can you see why 70% of the mechanic at AA think of the twu as the cancer of the AMT. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!

Sorry brother, maybe I should go out, get into debt beyond my means, and join the brothers and sisters you speak of. I took a 17.5% cut in pay. I adjusted as many others did also . If you had to get a second job I'm sorry for you. I am not an e-board member , do you know of one that did not take the same cut, show proof please. No, I do not have any credit cards, cell phones, or cable TV. My vehicles are paid for and my children are in school. My mom has been dead for years and I left home in 1972. Perhaps you are the one that needs to wake up.

When the auto manufactures figure a way to ship their jobs overseas or over the border as they already have, then that "craft" union will also be working at WalMarts as you to get by. It is not their craft union that keeps their jobs inhouse. Once their board members find a $$$$ trail they will follow it. You cannot compare our industry with that of say a plumber, another craft union. Would be real difficult to have your leaky faucet repaired in India.

Tell me, what percent of the AMT's at AA want AMFA judged on AMFA's accomplishments? Not your 70% guestimate. All throughout the recruitment drive of AMFA all we have heard is the pitfalls of the TWU, wonder why?

 

[Raptor]

Sorry brother, maybe I should go out, get into debt beyond my means, and join the brothers and sisters you speak of. I took a 17.5% cut in pay. I adjusted as many others did also . If you had to get a second job I'm sorry for you. I am not an e-board member , do you know of one that did not take the same cut, show proof please. No, I do not have any credit cards, cell phones, or cable TV. My vehicles are paid for and my children are in school. My mom has been dead for years and I left home in 1972. Perhaps you are the one that needs to wake up.

When the auto manufactures figure a way to ship their jobs overseas or over the border as they already have, then that "craft" union will also be working at WalMarts as you to get by. It is not their craft union that keeps their jobs inhouse. Once their board members find a $$$$ trail they will follow it. You cannot compare our industry with that of say a plumber, another craft union. Would be real difficult to have your leaky faucet repaired in India.

Tell me, what percent of the AMT's at AA want AMFA judged on AMFA's accomplishments? Not your 70% guestimate. All throughout the recruitment drive of AMFA all we have heard is the pitfalls of the TWU, wonder why?

Come on now the pitfalls of the TWU have been reported but also you have heard many times why Mechanics like AMFA, many many fliers went out last year talking about AMFA contracts, AMFA Democracy, AMFA Concession's policy, AMFA open negotiations, etc. you know all of this info went out you may have chosen not to look at it as many did, but it was out there for anyone who wanted to know what the Mechanics see in AMFA to see.

Let's be honest here Nightwatch if your not carefull old Davey boy will dig into his archive of literature from past fliers on AMFA's positive traits and blanket the board with post's and those of us who have already read them don't need to see them again. OK

So lets be honest hear the good and the bad have come out from both sides regarding both sides, had we been voting now we would know how the Majority felt about all of that information but were not thanks to the NMB.

 

[Rusty]

Sorry brother, maybe I should go out, get into debt beyond my means, and join the brothers and sisters you speak of. I took a 17.5% cut in pay. I adjusted as many others did also . If you had to get a second job I'm sorry for you. I am not an e-board member , do you know of one that did not take the same cut, show proof please. No, I do not have any credit cards, cell phones, or cable TV. My vehicles are paid for and my children are in school. My mom has been dead for years and I left home in 1972. Perhaps you are the one that needs to wake up.

Steve, half of the members I can think of took second jobs or started their own little business from mowing lawns to fixing cars and doing handyman work. I know some that filed bankruptcy.

I am not an e-board member , do you know of one that did not take the same cut, show proof please.

Local 514 E-board members voted not take any pay cuts. Why? Go ask them yourself!!!

Tell me, what percent of the AMT's at AA want AMFA judged on AMFA's accomplishments? Not your 70% guestimate. All throughout the recruitment drive of AMFA all we have heard is the pitfalls of the TWU, wonder why?

Quite the opposite, those who advocate AMFA want them because of what they stand for and their accomplishments. You heard of the pitfalls of the twu because they cannot be ignored or overcome.

 

[Bob Owens]

70%??? Then why are we waiting for amfa's appeal?

Simple, because of all the non-mechanics they added to the list.

 

[Bob Owens]

Sorry brother, maybe I should go out, get into debt beyond my means, and join the brothers and sisters you speak of. I took a 17.5% cut in pay. I adjusted as many others did also . If you had to get a second job I'm sorry for you. I am not an e-board member , do you know of one that did not take the same cut, show proof please. No, I do not have any credit cards, cell phones, or cable TV. My vehicles are paid for and my children are in school. My mom has been dead for years and I left home in 1972. Perhaps you are the one that needs to wake up.

When the auto manufactures figure a way to ship their jobs overseas or over the border as they already have, then that "craft" union will also be working at WalMarts as you to get by. It is not their craft union that keeps their jobs inhouse. Once their board members find a $$$$ trail they will follow it. You cannot compare our industry with that of say a plumber, another craft union. Would be real difficult to have your leaky faucet repaired in India.

Tell me, what percent of the AMT's at AA want AMFA judged on AMFA's accomplishments? Not your 70% guestimate. All throughout the recruitment drive of AMFA all we have heard is the pitfalls of the TWU, wonder why?

Well maybe you just took a 17.5% paycut but I guess figuring in the extra two weeks a year that you have to work for no pay (5 holidays plus the one week of vacation that you lost) and the extra amount you have to pay for medical is beyond your comprehension. Did you figure in the loss of longevity? You know what they say, time is money, only thanks to the TWU, we give more time for less money.

As I said before these concessions hit the line guys harder than overhaul. We lost several thousand dollars more a year than you guys did because we have to work the holidays. So the impact of losing 5 days completely and getting half pay for the ones we work hit us harder. Another hit for the line guys that disproportionately hit us harder was the loss of shift differential. Our pay cut was closer to 25%, not 17.5%.

 

[Nightwatch]

Rusty, you are wrong about me. I have read, and retained, most of the AMFA literature that was put on the floor in leaflets and letters dropped by organizers. Fact is, I have a pretty full folder of all the info.

Sure, I know of the AMFA ability to sit in the negotiations. How many empty seats are there daily? Quite a few from the research I have done. There are only a few true union loyalists that would fill those chairs daily. We are full of people that do not want to be bothered , on their own time, to do anything with anybody's union, AMFA or the TWU, but by God you better be ready to give them an indepth synopsis of what went on.

Our E-Board members also took no cut in pay. Want to know why? Because they get no pay. Zero.

I would have to state that personally I would not change to another union based soley upon what they stand for. I would have to see what have they accomplished, who are they affiliated with, does the change make my profession or job any more secure? AM I VOTING FOR THEM OUT OF SPITE OF THE INCUMBANT? I do nothing, at least attempt to do nothing, in spite or anger that will effect my family. I am not a coward, I am not management or any of the other names thrown out there. Problem with me is that I am not a sheep.

I agree whole heartedly that both unions have their pitfalls, no argument there. I have confronted Jim Little, face to face, and received answers to my questions that were sufficient. I was not embracing all the answers, but I realize that in life sometimes you need to bear things that will someday change.

There are times I would say "allow the vote, bring AMFA in", if I thought it would give us unity, but I do not see that happenning, with the TWU or AMFA, as long as this battle goes on. So, in stating that, I do wish you AMFA guys luck and no bad intentions, but I opt to remain TEAMTWU and continue showing both sides of the truth as I research it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Our E-Board members also took no cut in pay. Want to know why? Because they get no pay. Zero.

Good for them.

Are the members getting what they are paying for too?

Is their UB paid by the company or do they punch out before they go to the basement?

Actually I do think that it is noble of them to do it for no salary. I once proposed just cutting our salaries so we would have more money for other things like sending stewards to Meany for training. It did not go over too well. Only one other guy thought it was a good idea.

Give it time, they will fall into the TWU way of doing things.

 

[Nightwatch]

Good for them.

Are the members getting what they are paying for too?

Is their UB paid by the company or do they punch out before they go to the basement?

Actually I do think that it is noble of them to do it for no salary. I once proposed just cutting our salaries so we would have more money for other things like sending stewards to Meany for training. It did not go over too well. Only one other guy thought it was a good idea.

Give it time, they will fall into the TWU way of doing things.

Our E-Board members have NEVER received a salary, period. When our local was formed there was no money in the till. When we were able to pay our E-Board members it was after the wage concessions and it was voted down by the membership. Democracy ruled. The International did not say "they can do that".

Are E-Board does a fine job, they have been attempting to get us the 3rd party work, our 145 rating, and assisting in the anti-AMFA campaign. All for free. Not one of them quit when the wages were voted down, good men with good intentions.

Question though, now that we are on the topic. Do the AMFA E-Board members receive compensation from the union and keep their regular company wages and benefits?

 

[Rusty]

Question though, now that we are on the topic. Do the AMFA E-Board members receive compensation from the union and keep their regular company wages and benefits?

No they do not, as a matter of fact it has cost most of them a considerable amount out of their own pockets.

Do your E-board members get paid by the company during union business time or do they work at their box and do union business before and after work???

 

[Nightwatch]

No they do not, as a matter of fact it has cost most of them a considerable amount out of their own pockets.

Do your E-board members get paid by the company during union business time or do they work at their box and do union business before and after work???

Our E-Board members work most of the time on UB I believe. I am not up on who pays them, it has never came up in conversation. I would guess that the company is still paying them so they receive med benefits and such. The only one that might not be paid by company would be our finance guy, the bookkeeper, or whatever you call him.

We do not ask them to work on their own time, and as busy as they are there is no way they can turn wrenches and do the job we elected them to do. I believe if the floor had been "educated" for lack of a better word, on the salary issue it would have passed.

And really, I am the wrong person to ask about their pay and benefits, I can only assume.

 

[Bill]

Come on now the pitfalls of the TWU have been reported but also you have heard many times why Mechanics like AMFA, many many fliers went out last year talking about AMFA contracts, AMFA Democracy, AMFA Concession's policy, AMFA open negotiations, etc. you know all of this info went out you may have chosen not to look at it as many did, but it was out there for anyone who wanted to know what the Mechanics see in AMFA to see.



So lets be honest hear the good and the bad have come out from both sides regarding both sides, had we been voting now we would know how the Majority felt about all of that information but were not thanks to the NMB.

fliers went out last year talking about AMFA contracts, AMFA Democracy, AMFA Concession's policy

AMFA contracts - poor language
AMFA Democracy - yet to be seen
AMFA concession's policy - waffling to say the least, or should I say crumbling beneath their feet



but were not thanks to the NMB.

So now it's the NMB's fault that AMFA did not have enough cards????? Give me a friggin' break!!!!!!

 

[Rusty]

Our E-Board members work most of the time on UB I believe. I am not up on who pays them, it has never came up in conversation. I would guess that the company is still paying them so they receive med benefits and such. The only one that might not be paid by company would be our finance guy, the bookkeeper, or whatever you call him.

Steve, obviously they are paid by the company and doing union work if they are not at their boxes at all. The bookkeeper is called the secretary-treasure and he is also paid full time by the company.

Are you saying then that the money your local is paying out to the officers is just money paid for going to Tulsa, dancing around a coffin and a flag or just extra cash?

Take a look at the column header, it reads "Gross Salary" shouldn't it be under "Disbursements for official business"?

2003 Local 530 LM2

 

[Bob Owens]

Steve, obviously they are paid by the company and doing union work if they are not at their boxes at all. The bookkeeper is called the secretary-treasure and he is also paid full time by the company.

Are you saying then that the money your local is paying out to the officers is just money paid for going to Tulsa, dancing around a coffin and a flag or just extra cash?

Take a look at the column header, it reads "Gross Salary" shouldn't it be under "Disbursements for official business"?

2003 Local 530 LM2

I think its obvious that Local 530 has its officers doing UB on company time.

The negotiations and Presidents council meetings alone could easily account for half of that $80K. $80k to service 1700 members and a Treasury that went from $20k to $500 K in a year? Something isnt right. As Nightwatch has stated here they are not at their boxes working because they could not service the members and do UB at the same time. The LM-2 does not reflect this. If one were to look at the LM-2 it appears that there is very little time spent servicing the members and managing the Local. I think some member from Local 530 should call the DOL at 646 264-3190. Tell them that your Local is accepting Financial aid from the company in violation of Taft-Hartley and the RLA. Tell them as a dues paying member of that Local you feel that their dependancy on corporate funds has compromized their ability to represent you and that you want this pursued.

The rule banning unions from accepting financial aid from the company was put in to protect the members. When a union accepts financial aid from the company, by allowing union officers to conduct business on company time, it compromisese the unions ability to represent the members, it makes the union beholden to the company. Company funded unions were known as "company unions". It seems that is what the TWU is.

 

[Rusty]

I think its obvious that Local 530 has its officers doing UB on company time.

The negotiations and Presidents council meetings alone could easily account for half of that $80K. $80k to service 1700 members and a Treasury that went from $20k to $500 K in a year? Something isnt right. As Nightwatch has stated here they are not at their boxes working because they could not service the members and do UB at the same time. The LM-2 does not reflect this. If one were to look at the LM-2 it appears that there is very little time spent servicing the members and managing the Local. I think some member from Local 530 should call the DOL at 646 264-3190. Tell them that your Local is accepting Financial aid from the company in violation of Taft-Hartley and the RLA. Tell them as a dues paying member of that Local you feel that their dependancy on corporate funds has compromized their ability to represent you and that you want this pursued.

The rule banning unions from accepting financial aid from the company was put in to protect the members. When a union accepts financial aid from the company, by allowing union officers to conduct business on company time, it compromisese the unions ability to represent the members, it makes the union beholden to the company. Company funded unions were known as "company unions". It seems that is what the TWU is.

I think allowing the company to pay officers has not only served to corrupt the union it will only serve the international as they swoop down and suck up the percentage of dues money when we leave. This action will allow the international a better retirement and very disproportionate raises than those that are left.

The corruption continues and will always continue as long as they are not sued. These are some of the precise reasons we will never be able to change the twu from within as the money is too great and the unaccountability keeps them in the drivers seat sucking up the cash.

 

[Nightwatch]

So now we are to consider wages and benefits as "financial aids"? Possibly in NY but not here. Do the AMFA locals pay their officer's wages/benefits/and retirement packages?

What happens to an AMFA local's monies when it is no longer a viable local? Do they split it up with the members?

And really Owens, one post you state our E-Board isn't repping it's members, the next time I see you write they are doing it ["nothing" ] on company time.

You need to go impress your 30 local members.