Is This Poor "sportsmanship". . .

[Hackman]

I must say that is a nice one!

Looks like a twu ass. All you need now is a coffin and some beer swillin' twu rednecks chanting "scab, scab, scab!!! You twu desparation panties are showing.

"Ok twu boys and girls, recess is over and Uncle sunny wants to read you a story before your nap".

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Mark Inman]

Hey night watch where do you think Rick Mullins or Dennis Birdshit stood on the issue of being able to recall local officers. The same local officers they now call an idiot. There both self-serving hipocrits. I know maybe we should elect Jim Crook more SRP's please. Who in this so called Union is accountable to the members? :down:

 

[High Speed Steel]

Hey night watch where do you think Rick Mullins or Dennis Birdshit stood on the issue of being able to recall local officers. The same local officers they now call an idiot. There both self-serving hipocrits. I know maybe we should elect Jim Crook more SRP's please. Who in this so called Union is accountable to the members? :down:

What do you mean by accountable? Maybe you should offer yourself as a supportive member of the TWU and become "ACCOUNTABLE"....!!!!!

You know you have that right! And your elected Officers can not do it alone without the support of their members.

----------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Nightwatch]

Hey night watch where do you think Rick Mullins or Dennis Birdshit stood on the issue of being able to recall local officers. The same local officers they now call an idiot. There both self-serving hipocrits. I know maybe we should elect Jim Crook more SRP's please. Who in this so called Union is accountable to the members? :down:

Not sure, why not ask them if you have questions. Are you one of those that do not attend meetings, complain about the TWU from your chair at home, and join in on group chants? Get involved and then you can answer your own questions.

 

[Bob Owens]

Not sure, why not ask them if you have questions. Are you one of those that do not attend meetings, complain about the TWU from your chair at home, and join in on group chants? Get involved and then you can answer your own questions.

Well I can tell you where Burchette stood at the last Convention. He was against recall of officers.

In fact the whole 514 delegation with the exception of one guy voted against it. The other delegates gave him a hard time about it too.

HSS is right about one thing, your ELECTED officers cant do it.

He goes on to say "without the help of the members". Ok, what do you want the members to do?

The TWU loves to fall back on this "get involved" line.

While I agree that members should be involved for the TWU this is just an excuse. If you want the members to be involved you have to be specific.

Get involved in what?

Go sit at the hall every month? What does that prove? They know damn well that most members have tight schedules, many have to work two jobs thanks to the TWU negotiated contracts. The TWU officials get paid to go to and run those meetings. How many of them would be there on their own time?

Most members are not going to waste a couple of hours sitting at the hall going over mundane issues. However it gives these incompetant leaders an excuse for their poor performance-"its the members fault because they did not get involved". Again be specific, how did a lack of member participation result in the failure of some effort by the Local? Chances are they cant come up with one. The fact is that members pay dues and they vote. If you want more involvement you have to make the effort by informing and educating your members and be specific as to what you want done and why. However the only time they should be requested to give up their time is when the Local cant do it any other way, after all every member works two hours per month for the union.

As long as members are paying dues and voting they are in fact "involved". You dont really want "involvement" you want a thousand cheerleaders pumping up your egos. Once one of those who take you up on your offer to get involved expresses an opinion different from yours they find themselves ruled "out of order", called "anti-union" , an AMFA puke or a troublemaker.

Good luck and stay on the well worn path of blaming the members. It has worked well for the last twenty years right?

 

[Mark Inman]

That participate crap is what I get every time I ask a legitimate question. I participate more than 90% of the e-board at my local. Just answer the question if you can. That’s right you can’t because they are only accountable until elected. You can ask anyone who knows me if I just sit and complain. No your not that lucky knight watch. Talk to the 514 e-board and ask them if I just sit and complain. Just because I know enough not to drink the Twscrew cool aid doesn't mean I don't participate.

 

[proAMFA]

TWUer,

I accept your cyber-shake and believe, as you do, that the membership should be united. I believe that the membership would be more united and would have true authority under AMFA.

I am not against anyone down at the hall, I believe many have tried to make changes without much luck thanks to a system that is rigged. I believe 514 officers should have loyalty to the membership and not the TWU International. Any oaths of loyalty should be to the membership. Take the International out of the picture and we can find common ground.

 

[twuer]

Proamfa,

I guess we will continue to agree to disagree. There has been some major problems with the leadership of Local 514 and I am hoping this election will replace those in need of replacing.

I don't however, agree that if amfa got in that they would bring about more unity. But you know, as I re-think that better, maybe they would, but it would be at the expense of many lost jobs just like at NWA and UAL. All that's left practically are amfa supporters. Funny how that works!!

 

[Hopeful]

Twuer:
Let me ask you this, if I may.

At what point would you say enough is enough in repsect to concessions. It seems to me that as long as you have a job, you would be willing to give the company anything they ask for.

Would you be willing to work for, say $15.00 an hour and have 100% employment at AA?

 

[twuer]

Would you be willing to work for, say $15.00 an hour and have 100% employment at AA?

No. If that were to happen (and there is no chance that it will) I would find employment elsewhere. I hold a ticket in my pocket and am worth more than that. I don't care how hard you try you will not have 100% employment anywhere in this business. But what's the point in assisting with the decimation of your work force???

At what point would you say enough is enough in repsect to concessions. It seems to me that as long as you have a job, you would be willing to give the company anything they ask for.

I get so sick of hearing this. These concessions were given (voted on) at a time when even keeping a job in the airline industry was "ify". We might not make the highest pay in the industry but we are doing a hell of alot better than many. I have faith that what we gave away will return. Will it be as fast as I would want....probably not, but I am doing well. I have very few complaints. Now, does that make the guy working in the high cost areas feel any better, probably not, but is it my fault that they live there? Some want to think it is, to make their argument better. We are not stupid union men Hopeful. We won't "give away the farm" as amfa likes to think. What we will do is see that our union helps to provide a decent wage a benefit package (which we do have) protect jobs, and good working conditions and all the other things the union is suppose to do.

 

[Bob Owens]

Would you be willing to work for, say $15.00 an hour and have 100% employment at AA?

No. If that were to happen (and there is no chance that it will) I would find employment elsewhere. I hold a ticket in my pocket and am worth more than that. I don't care how hard you try you will not have 100% employment anywhere in this business. But what's the point in assisting with the decimation of your work force???

At what point would you say enough is enough in repsect to concessions. It seems to me that as long as you have a job, you would be willing to give the company anything they ask for.

I get so sick of hearing this. These concessions were given (voted on) at a time when even keeping a job in the airline industry was "ify". We might not make the highest pay in the industry but we are doing a hell of alot better than many. I have faith that what we gave away will return. Will it be as fast as I would want....probably not, but I am doing well. I have very few complaints. Now, does that make the guy working in the high cost areas feel any better, probably not, but is it my fault that they live there? Some want to think it is, to make their argument better. We are not stupid union men Hopeful. We won't "give away the farm" as amfa likes to think. What we will do is see that our union helps to provide a decent wage a benefit package (which we do have) protect jobs, and good working conditions and all the other things the union is suppose to do.

So you are doing well. So the thousands out on the line,many nearing retirement who will have a permanently reduced pension for the rest of their lives, that have to go out and get second jobs(which Little thinks is great!) just dont matter do they? The thousands of workers who are out there in the high costs areas, working nights, weekends and holidays, where the funds are generated to provide you your comfortable existance dont come into your equation one iota! YOU are doing OK and thats ALL that matters!

What were you saying to me on another thread about my selfishness?

 

[Raptor]

So you are doing well. So the thousands out on the line,many nearing retirement who will have a permanently reduced pension for the rest of their lives, that have to go out and get second jobs(which Little thinks is great!) just dont matter do they? The thousands of workers who are out there in the high costs areas, working nights, weekends and holidays, where the funds are generated to provide you your comfortable existance dont come into your equation one iota! YOU are doing OK and thats ALL that matters!

What were you saying to me on another thread about my selfishness?

Bob we are all suffering in this Industry to various degree's some of us more than others, you chose to live where you live I chose to live where I live, if you are unhappy with the cost of living to wages ratio in your State you can move
When I vote I vote for what is best for me and my family I barely even knew New York existed until I met Chuck who is from New York, I voted NO on the contract I would like to think it was the best decision but I don't really know for sure the people who voted yes thought they made the best decision it was a very difficult decision for all of us, we will never know for sure what the best decision was nor will we know what AMFA could have done if they were here at the time, the Pilots and the flight attendants have good Unions and they did give the concessions as well <_< and Pilots are real hard asses they never give up anything unless they have to, so who knows maybe we were screwed no matter what happened, all we can do now is move on.
I was mad about this whole concession thing for a long time but now I have restructered my expenses as best I can and I am over it, I think the Aviation industry it not done with labor yet, so don't use up all your mad save some for this next year This ride ain't over yet.

 

[Decision 2004]

Bob we are all suffering in this Industry to various degree's some of us more than others, you chose to live where you live I chose to live where I live, if you are unhappy with the cost of living to wages ratio in your State you can move
When I vote I vote for what is best for me and my family

I was mad about this whole concession thing for a long time but now I have restructered my expenses as best I can and I am over it, I think the Aviation industry it not done with labor yet, so don't use up all your mad save some for this next year This ride ain't over yet.

What about Craft Unionsim the Union Constitution and Majority Rule?

You are some big union man aren't you Raptor?

All I ever read and hear from you is that it's about you and "You've got Yours Brother".

You are where you need to be now.

Everyone restructured their lives, but that doesn't make it OK now. Through this process, we found that Jim Little is liar and there is nothing we can do to get him out of Office. We found out that according to a Federal Judge, we are NOT guaranteed a vote on changes or amendments to our Labor Agreement. And Chuck and Bob were removed from elected Office without the input of their own membership.

And you think everything is OK because you "restructured" your personal finances and Bob can move if he wants?

You make me ill. And you certaninly don't have a grasp on what this movement is really about.

Those of us that have been long time AMFA supporters watch workers like you come and go from the movement. And it is workers like you that make me wonder why I bother to put time, money, and effort to save your sorry ass from the TWU and a complete meltdown of a profession.

 

[Nightwatch]

That participate crap is what I get every time I ask a legitimate question. I participate more than 90% of the e-board at my local. Just answer the question if you can. That’s right you can’t because they are only accountable until elected. You can ask anyone who knows me if I just sit and complain. No your not that lucky knight watch. Talk to the 514 e-board and ask them if I just sit and complain. Just because I know enough not to drink the Twscrew cool aid doesn't mean I don't participate.

I didn't answer your question because I am not from your local and do not correspond with the elected officials to get their viewpoints. I suppose I could do the "Bob Owens" two-step approach and appear that I have attended all meetings and know every aspect of the TWU.

I find it difficult to grab you guys any kleenex for your tears. Owens found no problem with accepting the $800/mo. from the TWU, and now he states that members require two jobs? Maybe he and his overextended lifestyle do, but I do not see many with two jobs. Members are hesitant to give up their own time to be involved in union activities because 8 1/2 hrs a day already goes out to the Company and any more time takes away from family and personal time. A member has to have the desire to become an activist, some just have the desire to criticize and complain.

 

[Raptor]

What about Craft Unionsim the Union Constitution and Majority Rule?

You are some big union man aren't you Raptor?

I all read is it's about you and "You've got Yours Brother".

You are where you need to be now.

Everyone restructured their lives, but that doesn't make it OK now. Through this process, we found that Jim Little is liar and there is nothing we can do to get him out of Office. We found out that according to a Federal Judge, we are NOT guaranteed a vote on changes or amendments to our Labor Agreement. And Chuck and Bob were removed from elected Office without the input of their own membership.

And you think everything is OK because you "restructured" your personal finances and Bob can move if he wants?

You make me ill. And you certaninly don't have a grasp on what this movement is really about.

Actually I have never claimed to be a big Union Man or a good Union Man you must have me confused with someone else, barely a Union Man would probably be more accurate I am ok with that.
I did not choose to join a Union it was required to work at AA after being in one for a few years I kind of like Unions and given a choice I would probably choose to be in one now but I have never fully developed the Union mentality and probably never will, I really only care about the pay and benefits brrrr is it cold in here or what B)


I have no idea what this means it must be a Union thing or something :huh:
I all read is it's about you and "You've got Yours Brother".


Yes I am where I need to be, living at least, I would love to have more money but wouldn't we all.

I did not say everything is OK, what I said was everyone in the Aviation industry is in a bad situation right now, all we can do is deal with it as best we can, and if one cannot live in a high cost of living area then he will have to move, cause I don't think there will be any money coming from AA for quite some time.

As far as what the movement is all about I thought I made it clear that I don't care what the movement is all about, nor do I care about AMFA or the TWU, I care about me and my family and I will do whatever is best to take care of those needs, I supported AMFA cause I thought they could get me more money and benefits on the next contract nothing more than that, I am not an Aviation enthusiast nor am I a humanitarian, I am a father trying to raise my boy and be as happy as one can in this crummy Industry.

I am not like many people claiming to be something they are not, the truth is if I had enough money I would retire and never think about the Aviation Industry or anyone in Aviation ever again but I don't so I will be at AA for another 14 years if you think I sound cold then put a jacket on if you ever pass by my way cause this is about as warm as it gets
The TWU supporters say the AMFA guys are only looking out for themselves well I don't speak for anyone but me but in my case it is true, I am looking out for me and my boy and that is how I vote so deal with it man.
If I ever do something that appears to be something a good Union man would do you can bet there is something in it for me or I would not be doing it, going on strike with everyone else to get more money would be an example of that, I am all for commradery, strenght in numbers, making the Aircraft Mechanic profession look better etc. if it means more money and benefits for me and my family.

I am sure I have pissed some people off but hey get over it, I neve promised you a rose garden, at least I am honest and that is all I can be.