Is This Poor "sportsmanship". . .

[proAMFA]

Another TWU election and another 3 years of the same old incumbents. Maybe we'll see one or two new faces. There are people who have been TWU 514 Officers since the 1980's and 1990's, still they continue to run and get reelected. I believe the real winner will be apathy. Why participate in an election when the winners represent themselves and the International rather than the will of the membership?

 

[Vortilon]

The problem with having guys who live in quite literally the lowest cost of living area in the US (Tulsa) controlling contract negotiations is obvious. The attitudes displayed by these same guys on this board shows their true allegiance is to the Union itself, not the membership - Damn sure not the line membership. Bob Owens hit the nail on the head a few posts back on the tactics employed by the TWU loyalists to defend their shortcomings. The better part of 20 years - I have seen nothing but excuses form the TWU. There comes a time when a real change is necessary, and now is the perfect time. Most of us are tired of the communist affiliated TWU. You know what, I bet that 75% of those 1200 cabin cleaners would vote for the AMFA if given a chance. The FSCs I know, are for change.

 

[Nightwatch]

The problem with having guys who live in quite literally the lowest cost of living area in the US (Tulsa) controlling contract negotiations is obvious. The attitudes displayed by these same guys on this board shows their true allegiance is to the Union itself, not the membership - Damn sure not the line membership. Bob Owens hit the nail on the head a few posts back on the tactics employed by the TWU loyalists to defend their shortcomings. The better part of 20 years - I have seen nothing but excuses form the TWU. There comes a time when a real change is necessary, and now is the perfect time. Most of us are tired of the communist affiliated TWU. You know what, I bet that 75% of those 1200 cabin cleaners would vote for the AMFA if given a chance. The FSCs I know, are for change.

CAN YOU SPELL LINE ATTITUDE?

 

[Raptor]

Another TWU election and another 3 years of the same old incumbents. Maybe we'll see one or two new faces. There are people who have been TWU 514 Officers since the 1980's and 1990's, still they continue to run and get reelected. I believe the real winner will be apathy. Why participate in an election when the winners represent themselves and the International rather than the will of the membership?

If you feel that way then vote for who you really want to be in office if enough people vote then the right people will be in office if we go AMFA we will still have the same apathy at the base and if the TWU incumbents keep getting Elected then they will be Elected under AMFA as well cause the same people will be voting as when we were the TWU, Changing Unions will change some things but if you think everything will change and everything will be rosy you are in for a rude awakening, The apathy thing will probably not be overcome by changing Unions and changing Unions will not make anybody any tougher so the people who won't fight now probably will not fight if we change Unions, and let's look at Officers how many people were willing to run for Vice President of AMFA local 12 one guy and he is the worst guy you would ever want as an Officer that is a really bad sign, it appears to me that if we do go AMFA we are going to have a really hard time finding any good people to run for Office, having a better Union won't mean crap if we can't find any good men to run the thing
I think Don will probably make a good President but the Vice President canidate has some serious problems, I have not seen who is running for the other positions but one would have to worry if they are not better than the Vice President canidate this is no small issue and it is something to put some thought into at least in the TWU election there are alot of people willing to run for the Job. :unsure:

 

[Nightwatch]

If you feel that way then vote for who you really want to be in office if enough people vote then the right people will be in office if we go AMFA we will still have the same apathy at the base and if the TWU incumbents keep getting Elected then they will be Elected under AMFA as well cause the same people will be voting as when we were the TWU, Changing Unions will change some things but if you think everything will change and everything will be rosy you are in for a rude awakening, The apathy thing will probably not be overcome by changing Unions and changing Unions will not make anybody any tougher so the people who won't fight now probably will not fight if we change Unions, and let's look at Officers how many people were willing to run for Vice President of AMFA local 12 one guy and he is the worst guy you would ever want as an Officer that is a really bad sign, it appears to me that if we do go AMFA we are going to have a really hard time finding any good people to run for Office, having a better Union won't mean crap if we can't find any good men to run the thing
I think Don will probably make a good President but the Vice President canidate has some serious problems, I have not seen who is running for the other positions but one would have to worry if they are not better than the Vice President canidate this is no small issue and it is something to put some thought into at least in the TWU election there are alot of people willing to run for the Job. :unsure:

Wuh happened? I actually agree with Raptor...there is a God!

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

If you feel that way then vote for who you really want to be in office if enough people vote then the right people will be in office if we go AMFA we will still have the same apathy at the base and if the TWU incumbents keep getting Elected then they will be Elected under AMFA as well cause the same people will be voting as when we were the TWU, Changing Unions will change some things but if you think everything will change and everything will be rosy you are in for a rude awakening, The apathy thing will probably not be overcome by changing Unions and changing Unions will not make anybody any tougher so the people who won't fight now probably will not fight if we change Unions, and let's look at Officers how many people were willing to run for Vice President of AMFA local 12 one guy and he is the worst guy you would ever want as an Officer that is a really bad sign, it appears to me that if we do go AMFA we are going to have a really hard time finding any good people to run for Office, having a better Union won't mean crap if we can't find any good men to run the thing
I think Don will probably make a good President but the Vice President canidate has some serious problems, I have not seen who is running for the other positions but one would have to worry if they are not better than the Vice President canidate this is no small issue and it is something to put some thought into at least in the TWU election there are alot of people willing to run for the Job. :unsure:

IT IS THE AMFAs STRUCTURE WE WANT!!!!!!!!!!!

You give the same man different tools to work with, he will build something different!!!
If you will look at the AMFA represented airlines, most of the positions were filled with AMFA advocates/organizers when the AMFA came on the property.

Most members have watched the different people come and go in the twu local. It's always the same old story. You wonder why the members don't even bother to vote or get involved!!!!!!

I could go along with your "Change from Within" to humor you but the twu has baggage in the form of 20+ years of concession that has to be dealt with!! There is no way I can sit back and play along!!!

Until we get "REAL" change, It will continue to be the same old story!!!!!!!

Keep the Faith.......AMFA NOW!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

The problem with having guys who live in quite literally the lowest cost of living area in the US (Tulsa) controlling contract negotiations is obvious. The attitudes displayed by these same guys on this board shows their true allegiance is to the Union itself, not the membership - Damn sure not the line membership. Bob Owens hit the nail on the head a few posts back on the tactics employed by the TWU loyalists to defend their shortcomings. The better part of 20 years - I have seen nothing but excuses form the TWU. There comes a time when a real change is necessary, and now is the perfect time. Most of us are tired of the communist affiliated TWU. You know what, I bet that 75% of those 1200 cabin cleaners would vote for the AMFA if given a chance. The FSCs I know, are for change.

Actually I spoke to several Title III cabin cleaners this evening. They said "bring me the cards and I'll sign, anything is better than the TWU". I told them they should fill out both, AMFA and the AGW cards.

And why wouldnt FSCs be ready for change? They have not fared well. In fact they have done worse than us. The closest comparasion they have is with Longshoremen. The skill level is comparable and so are the industries, only Longshoring has been around a lot longer, but they get paid a lot better. Part of the reason for that is that all the Longshoremen in any given Port are in one union. They are represented by a union that is focused specifically on their profesion and their industry. If all the FSCs in this industry were in one union they could be even stronger than the Longshoremen.

 

[Nightwatch]

I could go along with your "Change from Within" to humor you but the twu has baggage in the form of 20+ years of concession that has to be dealt with!! There is no way I can sit back and play along!!!

Until we get "REAL" change, It will continue to be the same old story!!!!!!!

20 years of the membership voting on and passing those concessions has to be dealt with. 20 years of allowing the floor's voice to be heard through the vote system, unforgiveable!

Let's play pretend a minute. Let's pretend Delle started @ AA in '63 and was successful in getting AMFA in at that time. What would have been different? Do you think he has the power to sway a vote on any contract? Do you think his team of real estate lawyers would only bring contracts to the vote that are progressive, regardless of the current economy or even a change in our industry.

I understand your grief, I understand your thinking that a different union would be your choice, but I do not believe that laying blame on the TWU for the last 20 years of events in your workplace is fair. You have to look at your fellow workers, their vote will not change with a different union. And please, do not state that AMFA would NEVER have presented contracts to the floor to vote upon as the TWU has, AMFA is changing, AMFA has changed it's "NO CONCESSIONS" stance already to "NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONS", the only reason they survive today is the fact that AMFA is still a "babe" union, AMFA has not weathered any storms yet. AMFA lost FM1, AMFA accepted a "bone" of 150 mechs on FM2. AMFA has nothing in it's structure or posture that excites me. AMFA will never be a true craft union. AMFA is a "craft orientated" union, what a weak statement. Like stating , I want to be a craft union, but they won't let me. Real weak.

And Raptor has a very strong argument about the VP slot. Fact being, I wouldn't want ANY of the AMFA organizers in an officail position, that would only prove to me that thay are truly self-serving individuals out to get themselves appointed since they lack the ability to actually run and get elected.

Have you ever wondered why the members that would make a good officer never run for office? It's due to their intelligence level, they are to smart to run, they know, within months of being elected, there will be a following that desire their removal, regardless of their performance.

 

[Raptor]

There are some TWU officers that have been in office for quite some time the ones that do a good job so I have to disagree that members would want to remove an officer that does his job well, the reason we want to change officers so much is not many poeple know how to or are willing to do the job well. 😉

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

20 years of the membership voting on and passing those concessions has to be dealt with. 20 years of allowing the floor's voice to be heard through the vote system, unforgiveable!

Let's play pretend a minute. Let's pretend Delle started @ AA in '63 and was successful in getting AMFA in at that time. What would have been different? Do you think he has the power to sway a vote on any contract? Do you think his team of real estate lawyers would only bring contracts to the vote that are progressive, regardless of the current economy or even a change in our industry.

I understand your grief, I understand your thinking that a different union would be your choice, but I do not believe that laying blame on the TWU for the last 20 years of events in your workplace is fair. You have to look at your fellow workers, their vote will not change with a different union. And please, do not state that AMFA would NEVER have presented contracts to the floor to vote upon as the TWU has, AMFA is changing, AMFA has changed it's "NO CONCESSIONS" stance already to "NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONS", the only reason they survive today is the fact that AMFA is still a "babe" union, AMFA has not weathered any storms yet. AMFA lost FM1, AMFA accepted a "bone" of 150 mechs on FM2. AMFA has nothing in it's structure or posture that excites me. AMFA will never be a true craft union. AMFA is a "craft orientated" union, what a weak statement. Like stating , I want to be a craft union, but they won't let me. Real weak.

And Raptor has a very strong argument about the VP slot. Fact being, I wouldn't want ANY of the AMFA organizers in an officail position, that would only prove to me that thay are truly self-serving individuals out to get themselves appointed since they lack the ability to actually run and get elected.

Have you ever wondered why the members that would make a good officer never run for office? It's due to their intelligence level, they are to smart to run, they know, within months of being elected, there will be a following that desire their removal, regardless of their performance.

Laying blame on the membership again........Same Old Story!!!

Most members will tell you that you had better vote the first contract in because the second will be worse than the first!!

The membership is only as good as it's leadership!! That is why we are one sorry excuse for a membership!!

As far as the last 20 years of concessions, most concessions were the ideas of the twu, not the members!! Who would have wanted their union to negotiate concessions??
The twu sucks......plain and simple. I believe your name must be on one of the twu ballots somewhere. Anyone with any neutral common sense can see that the worst case scenerio is that the AMFA is no Worse than the twu. Others belive that AMFAs structure will always be superior to the twus'!!! I agree 100% with the later and cannot be convinced otherwise!! The way I see the AMFA has done everything in a unions power to represent their members!!! Must be why the AMFA represented airlines have opted to keep the AMFAs' structure in place. When we do get the AMFA on the property at AA you will come to realize this. Until then, keep those twu blinders securely in place!!

Keep the Faith........AMFA NOW!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nightwatch]

If a contract, say with a "B scale option" is presented with a "DO NOT VOTE FOR" note attached, and it passes by 83% it is not the members doings?

As far as the last 20 years of concessions, most concessions were the ideas of the twu, not the members!! Who would have wanted their union to negotiate concessions??
The twu sucks......plain and simple. I believe your name must be on one of the twu ballots somewhere.

Most concessions were the ideas of the TWU? Surely you have proof of that absurd post. You stating the TWU sat down, thought, gee, lets make the company a concession contract offer. Does that statement seem the least bit off to you?

My name is not on, or ever has been on , a union ballet. Sorry to rain on your parade but I simply do not embrace AMFA as you. I won't throw our barbs at you for your belief, I simply do not agree with you, simple as that.

 

[Mark Inman]

Nightwatch you’re a liar to say you don't know many with two jobs or your totally out of touch with people you work with. How did you take a 35% cut in pay and it not effect your life style? You must be one of the e-board members who didn’t take a cut. Maybe you just live with your Mom still. Wake up your talking to the people who are working the second jobs here and there’s a lot more people doing the same thing. Why don’t you see the people in the auto manufacturing industry working second jobs. Craft unions !!!!! Why do you think cars are going back up in price and housing construction is stronger than ever. Because for the most part the people in the industrial unions are the only ones the economic recovery is passing by totally. Nightwatch can you see why 70% of the mechanic at AA think of the twu as the cancer of the AMT. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!

 

[Strake]

Nightwatch can you see why 70% of the mechanic at AA think of the twu as the cancer of the AMT.

70%??? Then why are we waiting for amfa's appeal?

 

[proAMFA]

Strake, in 2002 the NMB defined the class and craft at aprox. 16,500 here's proof...


NMB-class and craft at AA and TWA

Why is it ok by you that we are screwed out of the right to have a vote?

You and I both know that the class and craft is not actually 18,661.

Why not stand up for the worker rather than aid and abet the people who deprive us of our right to vote?

 

[Raptor]

70%??? Then why are we waiting for amfa's appeal?

He said 70% of Mechanics not 70% of everyone that the NMB consider to be part of our craft and class there is a difference, a Aircraft Cleaner is part of our craft and class but he is not a Mechanic, I think that he is probably right that about 70% of Mechanics are for AMFA but of course there are many more people in the Mechanic craft and class than just Mechanics even if you take out the people that the NMB put in that should not be in there is still a heck of alot of people considered to be part of our craft and class, I think some people on this board read a post the way they want to instead of how it is actually posted, I think there is alot of selective reading, we should all carefully look at what a post is actually saying before we jump to any conclusions. <_<

As for the appeal the NMB is as corupt as they come does anyone really think that they will go against one of their own investigators ain't gonna happen so if there is gonna be another drive you might as well start getting ready.
cause Wednesday we will all get the bad news. 🙁