Is AMFA in Distress?

[TWU informer]

Ok what is the story?

Name: It's about time
Email: Someone Spoke up
Employer:
Station: Mpls
Date: Sunday April 09, 2006
Time: 03:08:07 PM
Comments
Name: scab Email: Employer: nwa Station: Date: Saturday April 08, 2006 Time: 01:48:11 AM Comments why do all the strkers get so mad at the scabs? Dont you guys understand that it was amfa that dicked you, not the guys that crossed. The guys that crossed could see the handwriting on the wall about 3 months into the strike. It was either lose our jobs to a bunch of out of staters or go back to work. There are currently hundreds of applications from a&p mechanics waiting to take the next job openings at nwa after the airline settles with its other labor groups. Nobody who crossed the line was happy about it, most have said they never ever thought there was a chance they would be a scab.The company with alot of help from AMFA forced us into this. The big majority of the guys that crossed are mid fiftys with less than 10 yrs. to retirement, can you really blame them ? The general public [sadly] is on the companys side. They see the striking mechanic as a bunch of greedy bastards that were overpaid anyway. Oh, by the way, to those of you who think the strike would have succeeded if nobody crossed. Think again, the majority of the mechs the company has hired have 20 plus yrs exper. and there alot more waiting, The time has come to shitcan AMFA and get your jobs back. Comitted and unified is great but most of us needed our jobs back!! ***Amen!!****

This posting demonstrates the ignorance about AMFA along with very intense industrial union member philosophy and training.

This person still doesn't get that it was THE MECHANICS at NWA, the UNION MEMBERS, that voted to strike.

AMFA didn't "dick" anyone.

If the NWA Mechanics were "dicked" they did it to themselves. But only by a belief that skilled craftsman would never scab and bust a union of mechanics. What a crime that was.

Industrial Unionist still to this day cannot grasp the idea of union membership control versus their AFL-CIO dictatorships.

It also appears that this so-called union man would have complete disregard for majority rule and would instead be self serving, and also is fear mongering coward with regards to the profession and the industry, yet another strong trait commonly seen amongst the industrial unionist.

It is actually these weak pathetic union men that are destroying the profession, not a craft union that places the control of destiny in the hands of the dues payer.

Tell us ICEMAN, what would have been the end result if NO SKILLED AMT crossed the picket line? In other words, it was the scabs that caused the strike to fail, not the strikers. When one really thinks about the truth, it was the scabs that "dicked" the strikers, not AMFA. No Scabs, No Maintenance, No Maintenance, No Flights, No Flights, No Profits.

Indeed, I was shocked myself to find so many scab skilled technicians willing to bust a union, and more shocked that you and posters like the one of above try to place blame elsewhere. No company has ever busted a union without scabs crossing a picket line. Maybe the scabs will enjoy a short lived career in the industry, but they have left #### behind for their kids and grandkids. But obviously they only work for themselves and could care less about the future of the next generation. Maybe the Government will subsidize the millions of illegal immigrants to become licensed technicians and the profession will really tank before the scabs enjoy any form of retirement. That would be justice for the scabs! For them to be replaced by cheap hispanics would be an eye for an eye.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Nothing illustrates this more than the fact that the #2 man at AMFA, who used to work at NW, was able to get a job at another AMFA carrier just so he can keep his high paying AMFA position while many of the strikers languish in lesser paying jobs.

I appreciate your responses and as always I agree with some, disagree with some, blah, blah ,blah. But the above does interest me, which airline and is this from a factual source or amfanuts?

 

[skydrol]

Well you all will love this post. Both sides. I personally think we should fill out enough amfa cards to have a vote then do not vote so we have no union. I have no use for any of them. Let AA pay for all the hr folks. (twu=hr dept) I have to pay dues to the twu because it is a closed shop at AA. (idiots can tell me to quit now)(no anchor on my butt etc...)I have payed them retards 10 k so far for nothing... Except for the honor of doing some slugs work. i cannot think of any time they have represented me. It has always been they can do that brother! Now the amfa thing sounds good but get real with every airline diced up into different unions the whole usa would have to decide to get dovetailed into the same seinority list and that will not happen. The membership of all the different unions will not be willing to get dovetailed. So we will be tiny groups geting shot by the snipers in the trees. The way it is set up now is for failure. If the company has the upper hand the union is allowed to strike and fall on the sword. If the company does not have the upper hand the president steps in and says back to work. So this loyalty to one union or another is a funny thing to watch in my opinion. Just like politics. Trying to get real. Ok blast away i am ready....call me on spelling or something if you cannot respond logically????

 

[Kev3188]

Ok what is the story?

PDX, TPA, MIA, and PHX were closed by the company. AMFA took it to arbitration, and the company was forced to reopen those MTX bases. Plant Maintenance was handled as a separate grievance/isue, and as far as I know they never came back to their respective cities.

See how easy that is?

P.S. Pro AMFA or not, quit citing posts from AMFAnuts.com. It destroys any credibility you might have...Come up with your own arguments for once.

 

[ICEMAN]

PDX, TPA, MIA, and PHX were closed by the company. AMFA took it to arbitration, and the company was forced to reopen those MTX bases. Plant Maintenance was handled as a separate grievance/isue, and as far as I know they never came back to their respective cities.

See how easy that is?

P.S. Pro AMFA or not, quit citing posts from AMFAnuts.com. It destroys any credibility you might have...Come up with your own arguments for once.

On Kev3188, the real story amfa refused to negotiate with NWA to move work from MSP to ALT to justify keeping the ALT maintance bace open that is a Blatant Failure To Represent. There never was a GRIEVANCE FILED on ALT BASE being closed. 1500 MEMBERS WERE PUT ON THE STREETS. This is another case of amfa making the statment that (THEY WOULD NOT NEGOTIATE UNTILL THE CONTRACT AMENABLE DATE.) This was the same statment used by amfa in October 2004 and that is the reason amfa did not have any Section 6 openers, as I am sure you don't know the NWA/amfa contract stated that Section 6 openers must be presented 180 days pryor to the amenable date.

 

[Kev3188]

We weren't talking about Atlanta (that's ATL, by the way). Stick to the issue at hand, which is your accuracy in posting.

As for "early openers," why would they open negotiations (sp?) one minute before they were supposed to? Why would any one at NWA? If you worked here, you would know that at the Red Tail there is no such thing as negociating; NW just demands what it wants, the union balks, and then both sides dig in their heels.

AMFA knew NWA was coming at them with draconian cuts, and they decided to hold NWA to the terms of their contract-you know, the one BOTH parties agreed to.

On a side note, the IAM cba's at NWA also have "early opener" language....they became amendable in Feb. of 2003, so, obviously, it's quite effective.

 

[ICEMAN]

This gets more and more amazing. We now hear that after allowing NWA to outsource more than half its work and lay off more than half its members before the strike, amfa did a great job on outsourcing because it forced the Company to staff a few line stations with AMTs. This was not the result of the 38% cap, but because amfa negotiated a contract which required that certain line stations be staffed with AMTs, but nothing to require the Company to keep its heavy maintenance bases open or keep stations staffed with cleaners or plant maintenance. Even the staffing requirements for AMTs did not dictate a level of staffing. As a result PDX and a few stations were restaffed with less than fifty AMTs while cleaners and plant maintenance were wiped out and half the heavy checks were outsourced. What an achievement.
Sorry Bobby, if you check you will find that NWA was losing hundreds of millions of dollars throughout 2002 long before the TWU made any concessions. The idea that it was made unprofitable because of us is a complete lie. In fact, NWA, in seeking concessions, referenced the rates at UAL not AA because UAL is a more direct competitor. UAL was in bankruptcy well before we made our agreement and the Company had already moved to set aside its labor contracts and impose the concessions it ended up getting well before we made our agreement.
As for blaming the scabs, I do not condone scabbing, but the idea that the fact there were scabs exonerates amfa from its complete failure to prepare for a strike is just ridiculous and no NWA mechanic I've talked to buys it. Without the UAW there would have been no strike fund at all.

 

[TWU informer]

This gets more and more amazing. We now hear that after allowing NWA to outsource more than half its work and lay off more than half its members before the strike, amfa did a great job on outsourcing because it forced the Company to staff a few line stations with AMTs. This was not the result of the 38% cap, but because amfa negotiated a contract which required that certain line stations be staffed with AMTs, but nothing to require the Company to keep its heavy maintenance bases open or keep stations staffed with cleaners or plant maintenance. Even the staffing requirements for AMTs did not dictate a level of staffing. As a result PDX and a few stations were restaffed with less than fifty AMTs while cleaners and plant maintenance were wiped out and half the heavy checks were outsourced. What an achievement.
Sorry Bobby, if you check you will find that NWA was losing hundreds of millions of dollars throughout 2002 long before the TWU made any concessions. The idea that it was made unprofitable because of us is a complete lie. In fact, NWA, in seeking concessions, referenced the rates at UAL not AA because UAL is a more direct competitor. UAL was in bankruptcy well before we made our agreement and the Company had already moved to set aside its labor contracts and impose the concessions it ended up getting well before we made our agreement.
As for blaming the scabs, I do not condone scabbing, but the idea that the fact there were scabs exonerates amfa from its complete failure to prepare for a strike is just ridiculous and no NWA mechanic I've talked to buys it. Without the UAW there would have been no strike fund at all.

Talking with you is like talking with an industrial union parrot.

What the hell is your point?

And what the hell is your solution?

 

[local 12 proud]

And what the hell is your solution?

Another slogan T-shirt... :unsure:

 

[AMFAMAN]

Without the UAW there would have been no strike fund at all.

How much is currently in the twu strike fund?

 

[High Speed Steel]

It has been of my opinion that the amfa has been in distress for quite some time now. Beginning with the so-called industry leading contract that was negotiated with NW. The 38% cap was one major detrimental issue to the agreement, but I had concern for other areas within the agreement that I believed further enhanced the elimination of key positions that ensure employment. There was language eliminated and new language entered that exposed qualified personel in critical support areas to extermination. These were positions that were critical to the Overhaul capabilities for this carrier. With the new farm out language, and the loss of these positions. Major outsourcing was the result.

I as well am not a fan of a "SCAB", but amfa has exposed itself to......... "Armageddon".......

 

[scorpian]

It has been of my opinion that the amfa has been in distress for quite some time now. Beginning with the so-called industry leading contract that was negotiated with NW. The 38% cap was one major detrimental issue to the agreement, but I had concern for other areas within the agreement that I believed further enhanced the elimination of key positions that ensure employment. There was language eliminated and new language entered that exposed qualified personel in critical support areas to extermination. These were positions that were critical to the Overhaul capabilities for this carrier. With the new farm out language, and the loss of these positions. Major outsourcing was the result.

I as well am not a fan of a "SCAB", but amfa has exposed itself to......... "Armageddon".......

If a company is willing to violate an agreement it doesn't matter what kind of language is in place. NW has no honor when it comes to their employees, union or not, so to have an outsource % in the AMFA agreement was niether here nor there to them. It wouldn't have mattered what union was on the property. At least they made a stand (AMFA) and had a % put in writting. What does your scope clause say about outsourcing? Ask your RO guru (GT) what the number is. If you push him to hard on this matter he'll give you a blast of profanity and call you one of them AMFA guys!
If our outsourcing language is so solid than why have we got this 500 million figure hanging over our heads?

As long as the twu capitulates your job will be somewhat secure brother so don't worry be happy. Except management bonuses as a way of life and be happy with the crumbs that come your way and give credit to the twu almighty for each and every one of them because without the twu you would be nothing...................................................

 

[Observer]

All airlines have had various amounts of contracting out of maintenance for years...........ALL AIRLINES, not a new news worthy item, What is news worthy is that the wholesale contracting out of the work that has happened, and NWA is front and center on the issue. The association had contract language on a cap that if it was exceeded there was a penalty to the company, which was paid to the NATIONAL not to the locals, the working people who were harmed. Does anyone know of any arbitration decisions that were brought forward on the exceedance of the cap and what the decision were, or did NWA just belly up, pay the penalty, and keep sending work out the door?? The TWU locals have a vigorous RO program in place and routinely challenges the company on this issue, and has been successful in the arbitration arena.

 

[TWU informer]

The TWU locals have a vigorous RO program in place and routinely challenges the company on this issue, and has been successful in the arbitration arena.

Oh really?

And why is it that the outside vendors have taken over floor space in the Turbine Building where union workers use to operate equipment and work components?

Ask your vigourous RO committee why the cf6-80c2a5 engine components go out the back door via the GE cage on the west side of the turbine building. The Whole Engine is outosurced! Called Power by the Hour.

Why is it the Turbine RO Committee just distributed a $47 million dollar per year list of outsourced components asking if we can do the work in-house to keep the over manned workforce busy?

Maybe the TWU challenges management as you say, but the end result of the challenge is obviously huge amounts of outsourced work.

You can pipe dream and pretend all you want, but look at the facts instead of what you are told to say.

Chromolloy, Pratt & Whitney, and General Electric, all have floor space inside the trubine building to manage the huge outsourced work volume. And this floor space was occupied by TWU workforce just 8 years ago.

 

[local 12 proud]

Yea but AMFA...blah..blah..blah!