If we get laid off guess were really screwed with this new non bumping clause.

[enough already]

The bankruptcy laws do not favor membership controlled unions anymore than weak ass divided unions ran by hillbillies who win a popularity contest every 3 years.

Spewed my coffee and ROFL!! So true!!

 

[rifbound]

I hate threads like this one that spreads fear to those who may be subject to layoff, when in fact the topic of this thread is false. There is no non bumping clause anywhere in the current term sheet. Bottom line is that is states

"Employees identified as being subject to RIF or displacement
will be given 15 days to complete an online option form. The
RIF will be conducted virtually, the forms will be processed
with vacancies being filled first then bump options, after which
employees will be given 14 days to report."

The above statement taken from the current term sheet addresses bumping, which will be available to those with enough senority.

Well, like I've said before on this issue, AA doesn't want any bumping. NO matter what the "term sheet" says. Toooo costly, training, back ground checks, testing, AOA badges, turn times and so forth. But by the grace of God they do allow bumping..the above statement is true, only thing left out really in that statemnet is that the MOST junior stations will be displaced first after the vacancies. Then, only 10% can be displaced at a line station. Once that 10% is reached, that station is off the list.
So all those that think that they're bumping straight into DFW....guess again. You'll (and me) be in places like JFK, BOS, and other stations like it. Maybe AA will open up DWH and most of us can go there. Idk, if they will even follow the rules because of the BK but we shall soon see.

 

[JABORD]

When you grow up, we'll talk.

Well said Hackman. MisInformer, you've lost all credibility pal. Might do you some good to take a break for awhile.

 

[TWU informer]

Well said Hackman. MisInformer, you've lost all credibility pal. Might do you some good to take a break for awhile.

And what may I ask is your plan? Piss and Moan, call names like playground children and attack anyone who attempts to invoke rational thinking?

I have learned that your types have no plan at all. Just simple minds that have nothing more than a blame game because you are too weak and divided to take a real stand.

WEAK I tell you! Loud Mouths without substance.

The good news is I could care less what you think about me, and the last thing you will see me do is be take a break and be controlled by the likes of you.

 

[rifbound]

I put my PLAN with specifics on this forum in several postings. My plan would help overhaul survive and would transition line maintenance to parity. My plan would also reduce the companies cost structure substantially without such horrible losses for current employees. Feel free to address your concerns or opinion of my plan, I know you have read it.

What is your plan besides speculation that changing unions will somehow make us united and give us more leverage? My plan is only a legitimate response to a terrible situation. It is not the plan we would all like to see if we travel to your dream world, but it is however a legitmate plan in response to where we are actually currently at and headed. The only thing that makes my plan look palatable is the fact that the alternative looks even worse.

From what I see at United, Northwest, and even Southwest. if you work in Aircraft Overhaul Maintenance, changing unions does absolutely nothing to reverse the problem.
Sure the TWU sucks and needs to be replaced, but to use emotional events like these and falsely claim that changing unions is all we have to do to succeed is nothing but a big fat lie of manipulation using the suffering of others to advance an agenda that is not a valid plan.

There has been members here who have tried to oust the TWU for years. Sure, "playing the emotional" card will probably have more affect now of getting rid of the TWU.
Now about your plan...I've read your plan on this board before. There were/are some good ideas on it. So, why haven't you taken it to a "TWU union leader" and try to have someone go over it? Instead of arguing with people on here how your plan is the "only a legitimate response to a terrible situation.', take it and make a difference with it! So far it's all bark and no bite. Get it implemented in a "legitimate" proposal to the union, they can put it in a counter offer, and then we will all see how good it is! When your "plan" is accepted by the company or at least a portion or two of it, then you can say "I told you so." Until then, please stop with my plan this and my plan that. I'll say it again...it does have some good points to it (IMO) and I'm not attaching you. Just simply saying show us!

 

[JABORD]

And what may I ask is your plan? Piss and Moan, call names like playground children and attack anyone who attempts to invoke rational thinking?

I have learned that your types have no plan at all. Just simple minds that have nothing more than a blame game because you are too weak and divided to take a real stand.

WEAK I tell you! Loud Mouths without substance.

The good news is I could care less what you think about me, and the last thing you will see me do is be take a break and be controlled by the likes of you.

Like I said toughguy, should do you some good to take a break from it. I would miss the entertainment though.

 

[TWU informer]

Like I said toughguy, should do you some good to take a break from it. I would miss the entertainment though.

That's what I thougt. No plan, all mouth.

 

[TWU informer]

There has been members here who have tried to oust the TWU for years. Sure, "playing the emotional" card will probably have more affect now of getting rid of the TWU.
Now about your plan...I've read your plan on this board before. There were/are some good ideas on it. So, why haven't you taken it to a "TWU union leader" and try to have someone go over it? Instead of arguing with people on here how your plan is the "only a legitimate response to a terrible situation.', take it and make a difference with it! So far it's all bark and no bite. Get it implemented in a "legitimate" proposal to the union, they can put it in a counter offer, and then we will all see how good it is! When your "plan" is accepted by the company or at least a portion or two of it, then you can say "I told you so." Until then, please stop with my plan this and my plan that. I'll say it again...it does have some good points to it (IMO) and I'm not attaching you. Just simply saying show us!

TWU has it. But because all is secret I have no idea the status.

That is one thing that would likely be different with a membership controlled union. Make a difference in the outcome? I doubt it.

 

[aapitbull]

OK Show me one union ran by the membership that has faired well in a Bankruptcy filing. Instead of speculation, show me some facts that will prove your point. And the NO VOTE is not a dead horse because most of us lost a decent sum of money. And at the time the NO VOTERS were claiming we would recover all of that and even more. It is only a dead horse to those that no longer want to discuss these ugly facts! Of course it is a dead horse to those that no longer want to look at what it has cost us now. Not a dead horse to me. I still want to know how I can recover the $16,000.00 plus lost as a result. It is not a dead horse to me because I said all along that given the situation, we would not get a better labor agreement, and that is the only position that remains true to this date.




You did post this on 03/01/2012 @ 4:34pm

"Remember to thank all those folks who wanted to keep the twu for this, to all those that fought to remove the twu my thanks, to those who did not you are going to get exactly what you deserve!!!!"

That looks alot like placing blame to me. Even looks like an ounce or two of revenge included in the statement.



So spell out in detail how your plan of voting no and then changing unions would have helped change to outcome of this. Lets assume for a minute that you have some information regarding backdoor deals that the rest of do not have. Specifically how would a different union change the outcome of TUL being hit the worst? It appears to me overhaul and more AFW is getting the hardest hit. Are you saying that if we had a new union the line AMT's would have given more to protect the overhaul bases future? Please confirm that with something substantial and worth considering to have an ounce of truth tied to it. The problem overhaul is having is global competition and the bankruptcy laws, along with the willingness of corporations to outsource good jobs for more silver in their pockets. Has nothing to do with the name of the union. You are just using a pathetic emotional event to try to advance your speculation without any proof that making that change will succeed in reversing the trend.

The bankruptcy laws do not favor membership controlled unions anymore than weak ass divided unions ran by hillbillies who win a popularity contest every 3 years.
This union membership is so divided that changing unions would do nothing more than take away another one of the many excuses that has been used to place blame.

Your problem is that you live in a world of speculation instead of reality, and that speculation does not put food on the table.

I put my PLAN with specifics on this forum in several postings. My plan would help overhaul survive and would transition line maintenance to parity. My plan would also reduce the companies cost structure substantially without such horrible losses for current employees. Feel free to address your concerns or opinion of my plan, I know you have read it.

What is your plan besides speculation that changing unions will somehow make us united and give us more leverage? My plan is only a legitimate response to a terrible situation. It is not the plan we would all like to see if we travel to your dream world, but it is however a legitmate plan in response to where we are actually currently at and headed. The only thing that makes my plan look palatable is the fact that the alternative looks even worse.

From what I see at United, Northwest, and even Southwest. if you work in Aircraft Overhaul Maintenance, changing unions does absolutely nothing to reverse the problem.
Sure the TWU sucks and needs to be replaced, but to use emotional events like these and falsely claim that changing unions is all we have to do to succeed is nothing but a big fat lie of manipulation using the suffering of others to advance an agenda that is not a valid plan.

I have not read your plan but if there is a card to sign simply tell me where to get one, I do not need to know specifics to know if it envolves change from the status quo and membership control I am for it. As I said many times BK was coming no matter what, it was how we dealt with it that was going to make a difference, the majority on the committee today cannot even get their concerns heard Jim Little has decided that all votes from here on in will be roll call and the committee is being steamed rolled at every turn the fact that you work at TUL and have no info about whats really going on is your problem not mine and I am not going to be drawn in to a never ending circle jerk with you.

A committee of members went to the time, expense & effort to put together a second option other than AMFA we built the AMP web site held meetings provided handouts posted updates and put our personal phone numbers and e-mail address's on the web for those who have questions you do not see this as a viable option fine by me but do not say we have not provided our vision for what needed to be done as for specifics about BK We would have employeed the best lawyers and analyst money could buy we would have placed the members first not the Int'l we would have had nationally elected leaders who would of had to lookout for everyone instead of Hewitt and a few others roll calling what ever the Int'l says to but you know all of this and yeah you can call all this speculation too, so do me a favor put me on ignore and I will do the same for you.

Thanks Pitbull

Go AMP!!!!

 

[Slopoke]

Then, only 10% can be displaced at a line station. Once that 10% is reached, that station is off the list.

Where in the world did you get a 10% cap? I need to see this in writing. This year puts me at 26 years with AA and I've never heard of a 10%

In regards to your statement of the company not wanting to allow bumping, why did they not ask for that in the term sheet? Because the contents of the term sheet is what is going to be put in front of the judge for his approval. The only two other ways for your prediction to take place is that our entire contract is thrown out or the TWU voluntarily, through a letter, allows the company to prevent bumping. Please stop spreading FUD.

 

[rifbound]

TWU has it. But because all is secret I have no idea the status.

That is one thing that would likely be different with a union controlled union. Make a difference in the outcome? I doubt it.

Worked for the pilot's all these years and APFA has more balls than the TWU and is not scared to show it! Now, it is time for us, maintenance, to do the same. Whether or not it will work or not is all on us! But be have 2 great examples to follow and learn from the mistakes made there so that we might better improve and not make the same mistakes. We have done the AFL-CIO B.S. and look what that has got us. It's not going to set us back or hurt us anyworse to move on with another union. I would rather take my chances on AMP than waste anymore time with the TWU. Hell, talk about being set back, the TWU is king in that............

 

[Kev3188]

Well, like I've said before on this issue, AA doesn't want any bumping. NO matter what the "term sheet" says. Toooo costly, training, back ground checks, testing, AOA badges, turn times and so forth.

Assuming that being able to bump still exists, would the "online process" mentioned in the first post alleviate all of that?

Also, assuming it's a transparent process (everyone can see the awards, etc.), wouldn't that be better all around than someone showing up in a station only to be bumped again, and so on?

 

[Mr Red]

Assuming that being able to bump still exists, would the "online process" mentioned in the first post alleviate all of that?

Also, assuming it's a transparent process (everyone can see the awards, etc.), wouldn't that be better all around than someone showing up in a station only to be bumped again, and so on?

The company does not want to pay the 12,500.The training and testing happens everyday ,so no issue their.Virtual bump to eliminate double bumps,and as of today they still pay moving expences.

 

[rifbound]

Where in the world did you get a 10% cap? I need to see this in writing. This year puts me at 26 years with AA and I've never heard of a 10%

In regards to your statement of the company not wanting to allow bumping, why did they not ask for that in the term sheet? Because the contents of the term sheet is what is going to be put in front of the judge for his approval. The only two other ways for your prediction to take place is that our entire contract is thrown out or the TWU voluntarily, through a letter, allows the company to prevent bumping. Please stop spreading FUD.

Let me see...2003 I got laid off, still had 200+ under me at DFW, the union (Bob Kirk, Ron Riely, and I can name them all) told me because the 10% cap was reached in the previous rounds I was not able to bump into DFW. My choices fell to JFK, BOS, ORD, ect..Even though some of the guys that got riffed before me had less time then me, still couldn't bump them out. it's out there and I'll try and find where it is. On top of that, it went to arbitration cause of they way it went down and the arbitrator laid it out for the union and the company the way it was and is going to be done from now on, but that might change in the BK idk.

Do you remember the 95 SRP mess? SRP's through attrition...that week the AMT's were pink slipped and SPR's were in full affect. The company can put anything they want in the term sheet they want to. When we don't agree and it goes before the judge, AA can say " We can't allow the B&R bcause it's to costly." and if you think that they wont, you sir are blind. anything to save a buck in this BK. AA has proven over and over again that they will do whatever they want, always have. Can you name another airline that let the people (amt's) bump and roll through their system that outsourced O/H? (United's 10% is a different ball of wax.)

 

[Slopoke]

Let me see...2003 I got laid off, still had 200+ under me at DFW, the union (Bob Kirk, Ron Riely, and I can name them all) told me because the 10% cap was reached in the previous rounds I was not able to bump into DFW. My choices fell to JFK, BOS, ORD, ect..Even though some of the guys that got riffed before me had less time then me, still couldn't bump them out. it's out there and I'll try and find where it is. On top of that, it went to arbitration cause of they way it went down and the arbitrator laid it out for the union and the company the way it was and is going to be done from now on, but that might change in the BK idk.

Do you remember the 95 SRP mess? SRP's through attrition...that week the AMT's were pink slipped and SPR's were in full affect. The company can put anything they want in the term sheet they want to. When we don't agree and it goes before the judge, AA can say " We can't allow the B&R bcause it's to costly." and if you think that they wont, you sir are blind. anything to save a buck in this BK. AA has proven over and over again that they will do whatever they want, always have. Can you name another airline that let the people (amt's) bump and roll through their system that outsourced O/H? (United's 10% is a different ball of wax.)

When you were laid off in 2003 you were given a choice to bump, but not the station that, I am assuming you wanted to bump to. Just because there were junior people in DFW, dose not mean that according to the "juniority list" that those individuals were the lowest in the system and next in line to being bumped. Remember it goes by senority, those people in JFK, Bos, ORD, might have been junior to those in DFW, so those more junior people would be subject to bumping not the DFW AMTs.


Looking at the current Contract book, I can't find reference to a 10% limit in regards to bumping at all. I don't have any of the older agreements, but like I stated, I never heard of a 10% cap. The only cap will be, if it is not removed from the current contract, is Station and System protection. So if the company asks a judge to disallow bumping, oh well, but I have not seen anything in official writing that states that the company wants to stop bumping. Like I always say, show me in writing.