If we get laid off guess were really screwed with this new non bumping clause.

[dfw gen]

Dude you are unbalanced, seek help you need it.

 

[TWU informer]

Dude you are unbalanced, seek help you need it.

Come on you can debate better than that, I know you can!

 

[dfw gen]

Informer you don't debate you rant and call anyone that disagrees with you an idiot.

AGAIN YOU ARE UNBALANCED SEEK HELP!

the eap program is there for a reason use it before it goes away in bk. It's designed for priori like you

 

[TWU informer]

Informer you don't debate you rant and call anyone that disagrees with you an idiot.

AGAIN YOU ARE UNBALANCED SEEK HELP!

the eap program is there for a reason use it before it goes away in bk. It's designed for priori like you

So you being the big union man that you are, want to outsource one skill group to save jobs?
Then when someone points out the flaws in that idea, you claim they need to go to the EAP and they are unbalanced.

I feel like I am attending a TWU Membership Meeting when I read your postings.
Are you a TWU Officer elected or appointed?

 

[iluvaa]

Dude you are unbalanced, seek help you need it.

you attacked him, he responed and you cry about it. grow up May be i will bump the line to try and get rid of a-holes like you

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Damn!Damn! What have you done?------- At TWA we didn't have "station protection"! We didn't have "system protection"! What we did have is "seniority"! If we were layed off, we knew we could always exercise our seniority and bump low man, either station, or if we were that man, system where there was someone with less. ------- That simple! We had a system of "seniority", and bump and roll. ------ That was until AA came along! Than all that changed.----- What a shame!!!

 

[TWU informer]

<_< ------ Damn!Damn! What have you done?------- At TWA we didn't have "station protection"! We didn't have "system protection"! What we did have is "seniority"! If we were layed off, we knew we could always exercise our seniority and bump low man, either station, or if we were that man, system where there was someone with less. ------- That simple! We had a system of "seniority", and bump and roll. ------ That was until AA came along! Than all that changed.----- What a sham!!!

I dont know about that. There are TWA employees in Tulsa who were deemed "pre-qualified" in many job functions, then they came to Tulsa into those jobs and we have been training them since. Not a bad gig really. Could have been much worse for those guys.

 

[Buck]

<_< ------ Damn!Damn! What have you done?------- At TWA we didn't have "station protection"! We didn't have "system protection"! What we did have is "seniority"! If we were layed off, we knew we could always exercise our seniority and bump low man, either station, or if we were that man, system where there was someone with less. ------- That simple! We had a system of "seniority", and bump and roll. ------ That was until AA came along! Than all that changed.----- What a shame!!!

I believe it was TWA that came along. Now the former warriors of the Ichan Army will have to do whatever the TWU says.

 

[Hackman]

Blocked!

I'm sorry, was I speaking to you? Waffle Boy #2?

 

[aapitbull]

You know from perosonal experience as well as I do that a court filing means nothing unless you win a decision.
Time will tell.

I suspect our pensions will end up frozen and APA's will end up terminated.
If that happened will your statement still be true?

I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between doing nothing and attemping to do something, I imagine are pensions both going to end up at the PBGC but who knows, if your point was that you favor doing nothing in the hope that the company will take pity on us, you know I would never agree to give up without a fight.

From what I understand about negotiations right now the Int'l is desperate to get the pensions frozen because theirs far exceed the maxium of the PBGC payout, they will not say what the value of their pensions are only that it is a personal contract between them and AA. but what do I know maybe your right that the twu is the way to go.

 

[Slopoke]

I hate threads like this one that spreads fear to those who may be subject to layoff, when in fact the topic of this thread is false. There is no non bumping clause anywhere in the current term sheet. Bottom line is that is states

"Employees identified as being subject to RIF or displacement
will be given 15 days to complete an online option form. The
RIF will be conducted virtually, the forms will be processed
with vacancies being filled first then bump options, after which
employees will be given 14 days to report."

The above statement taken from the current term sheet addresses bumping, which will be available to those with enough senority.

 

[MCI transplant]

I believe it was TWA that came along. Now the former warriors of the Ichan Army will have to do whatever the TWU says.

<_< ----- Hey, doesn't matter who did what at this point. I just hope a little sanity prevails here! Good luck to all! ------ I think I'll head back South for a while! Keep up the good fight!------- Over, and out!

 

[TWU informer]

I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between doing nothing and attemping to do something, I imagine are pensions both going to end up at the PBGC but who knows, if your point was that you favor doing nothing in the hope that the company will take pity on us, you know I would never agree to give up without a fight.

From what I understand about negotiations right now the Int'l is desperate to get the pensions frozen because theirs far exceed the maxium of the PBGC payout, they will not say what the value of their pensions are only that it is a personal contract between them and AA. but what do I know maybe your right that the twu is the way to go.

Remember to thank all those folks who wanted to keep the twu for this, to all those that fought to remove the twu my thanks, to those who did not you are going to get exactly what you deserve!!!!

I was simply pointing out that I have yet to find a single union in the industry that has left Chapter 11 without licking their wounds. You seem to beleive that had we changed unions, this wouldn't be happening. At least you were clearly blaming those opposed to AMP or AMFA for this mess. Yet we really don't even know what is happening yet. Licking wounds is Licking wounds regardless of the difference between doing nothing and attemmpting to do something. Both lead to membership devestation of their well being and is NOT something anyone deserves regardless of thier opinions on union representation. I am taken aback that you would make a public claim that any working man or woman DESERVES what is currently taking place just because they have disagreed with you on representational choice.

And I NEVER said TWU was the way to go, and never said I favor doing nothing....stop putting words in my mouth.

You started this by blaming those that wish to keep the TWU for the Bankruptcy. Yet your NO Vote along with your campaigning for NO VOTES on the T/A is likely just as much to blame if not more.

Speaking of being better off with something else, combined with your assumption that you know everything...

...can you tell us where we are better off now since you distributed flyers via the AMP campaign advocating a NO VOTE on the T/A? Isn't that the leadership and direction you were advocating? So how are we better off? 2/3 rds followed your lead, not mine.

 

[aapitbull]

I was simply pointing out that I have yet to find a single union in the industry that has left Chapter 11 without licking their wounds. You seem to beleive that had we changed unions, this wouldn't be happening. At least you were clearly blaming those opposed to AMP or AMFA for this mess. Yet we really don't even know what is happening yet. Licking wounds is Licking wounds regardless of the difference between doing nothing and attemmpting to do something. Both lead to membership devestation of their well being and is NOT something anyone deserves regardless of thier opinions on union representation. I am taken aback that you would make a public claim that any working man or woman DESERVES what is currently taking place just because they have disagreed with you on representational choice.

And I NEVER said TWU was the way to go, and never said I favor doing nothing....stop putting words in my mouth.

You started this by blaming those that wish to keep the TWU for the Bankruptcy. Yet your NO Vote along with your campaigning for NO VOTES on the T/A is likely just as much to blame if not more.

Speaking of being better off with something else, combined with your assumption that you know everything...

...can you tell us where we are better off now since you distributed flyers via the AMP campaign advocating a NO VOTE on the T/A? Isn't that the leadership and direction you were advocating? So how are we better off? 2/3 rds followed your lead, not mine.

As you like to say go back and read my post I said "If your point was that you favor" Quite frankly half the time I don't know what you are trying to say but when you say things would not be different if we had a union ran by the members instead of the one currently hideing everything from the members I say B.S. as far as Vote NO goes I have said before and will say again I would do the same thing tomorrow because for me nothing has changed I gave you the last word on the issue and will not continue to beat a dead horse.

You claim I put words in your mouth but you say I blamed twu supporters for BK which you know is a lie because I said here on many occasions that BK was coming no matter what we did, what they deserve by doing nothing is the under the table backdoor deals that are currently being hatch at headquarters that most likely are going to negatively impact Tul more than anyone else just my humble opinion.

Finally my plan was to vote no and change unions but my plan failed thanks to the 2/3rds you claim followed me not following thru and signing a card so we are no better off today than we were back then, so go ahead and attack me for trying to make a difference and as always for being a know it all.

GO AMP!!!

 

[TWU informer]

As you like to say go back and read my post I said "If your point was that you favor" Quite frankly half the time I don't know what you are trying to say but when you say things would not be different if we had a union ran by the members instead of the one currently hideing everything from the members I say B.S. as far as Vote NO goes I have said before and will say again I would do the same thing tomorrow because for me nothing has changed I gave you the last word on the issue and will not continue to beat a dead horse.

OK Show me one union ran by the membership that has faired well in a Bankruptcy filing. Instead of speculation, show me some facts that will prove your point. And the NO VOTE is not a dead horse because most of us lost a decent sum of money. And at the time the NO VOTERS were claiming we would recover all of that and even more. It is only a dead horse to those that no longer want to discuss these ugly facts! Of course it is a dead horse to those that no longer want to look at what it has cost us now. Not a dead horse to me. I still want to know how I can recover the $16,000.00 plus lost as a result. It is not a dead horse to me because I said all along that given the situation, we would not get a better labor agreement, and that is the only position that remains true to this date.

You claim I put words in your mouth but you say I blamed twu supporters for BK which you know is a lie because I said here on many occasions that BK was coming no matter what we did, what they deserve by doing nothing is the under the table backdoor deals that are currently being hatch at headquarters that most likely are going to negatively impact Tul more than anyone else just my humble opinion.

You did post this on 03/01/2012 @ 4:34pm

"Remember to thank all those folks who wanted to keep the twu for this, to all those that fought to remove the twu my thanks, to those who did not you are going to get exactly what you deserve!!!!"

That looks alot like placing blame to me. Even looks like an ounce or two of revenge included in the statement.

Finally my plan was to vote no and change unions but my plan failed thanks to the 2/3rds you claim followed me not following thru and signing a card so we are no better off today than we were back then, so go ahead and attack me for trying to make a difference and as always for being a know it all.

GO AMP!!!

So spell out in detail how your plan of voting no and then changing unions would have helped change to outcome of this. Lets assume for a minute that you have some information regarding backdoor deals that the rest of do not have. Specifically how would a different union change the outcome of TUL being hit the worst? It appears to me overhaul and more AFW is getting the hardest hit. Are you saying that if we had a new union the line AMT's would have given more to protect the overhaul bases future? Please confirm that with something substantial and worth considering to have an ounce of truth tied to it. The problem overhaul is having is global competition and the bankruptcy laws, along with the willingness of corporations to outsource good jobs for more silver in their pockets. Has nothing to do with the name of the union. You are just using a pathetic emotional event to try to advance your speculation without any proof that making that change will succeed in reversing the trend.

The bankruptcy laws do not favor membership controlled unions anymore than weak ass divided unions ran by hillbillies who win a popularity contest every 3 years.
This union membership is so divided that changing unions would do nothing more than take away another one of the many excuses that has been used to place blame.

Your problem is that you live in a world of speculation instead of reality, and that speculation does not put food on the table.

I put my PLAN with specifics on this forum in several postings. My plan would help overhaul survive and would transition line maintenance to parity. My plan would also reduce the companies cost structure substantially without such horrible losses for current employees. Feel free to address your concerns or opinion of my plan, I know you have read it.

What is your plan besides speculation that changing unions will somehow make us united and give us more leverage? My plan is only a legitimate response to a terrible situation. It is not the plan we would all like to see if we travel to your dream world, but it is however a legitmate plan in response to where we are actually currently at and headed. The only thing that makes my plan look palatable is the fact that the alternative looks even worse.

From what I see at United, Northwest, and even Southwest. if you work in Aircraft Overhaul Maintenance, changing unions does absolutely nothing to reverse the problem.
Sure the TWU sucks and needs to be replaced, but to use emotional events like these and falsely claim that changing unions is all we have to do to succeed is nothing but a big fat lie of manipulation using the suffering of others to advance an agenda that is not a valid plan.